Pardini .32 ACP long line...not good.

First topic message reminder :

I tried a few factory loads and my own with T&B 60 gr SWC and the results are not good. I'm inclined to just shoot the .32 indoors as the T&B loads punches out the 10 ring at 50 ft. Barrel and chamber cleaned and 5 fouling shots before the 5 on target. Side notes: My 58 year old Colt .38 wadcutter grouped nicely within the 10 ring and the Pardini easily held Xring with the .22 barrel back on. Thoughts?

Finally got around to testing Travis 32 ACP coated bullet and I like them. Removal of the lube groove gives a longer contact area on side of bullet. In the past, because the weight of each component (bullet, charge, etc.) was so small for 32 ACP, I sorted bullets by weight to reduce variance. Well, I was lazy and did not do this with my initial testing trying an array of loads (test data uploaded). I've since weight sorted into 0.25-gr groups (63.76-64.0, 64.01-64.25, 64.26-64.50, & 64.51-64.75). Out of 500 bullets, less than 20 fell outside these weight groups). I tested the initial loads (all 64-gr bullets) using a Ransom Rest for my Pardini.

Haven't tested the sorted lots yet (this Monday), but given initial results from unsorted bullets, I think loads in the 1.50 grain range of usual fast powders (Bullseye, Titegroup, TiteWad, VV N310, WST) will produce a winner. I like the new bullets much better than the first iteration. If you haven't tried WST, give it a try; it is one of the best metering powders I've ever used.

Using a Dillion 550B, a mish-mash of dies, my basic load is Starline, Hornady, or R-P brass, Fed or Win primers, case lightly belled, OAL: 0.885 to 0.900, and crimp 0.331 to 0.333. I use the powder bar kit from Uniquetek, which facilitates accurate powder drops on my Dillion. Lots of luck. dipnet

My barrel is capable of decent accuracy but I take extraordinary care in loading Travis 64-gr LSWC-coated bullets. Because all the principal variables and (case volume, charge weight, bullet weight) and the range of values for each variable are relatively narrow, I focus on weighing bullets into 0.25-gr weight lots to reduce variation due to weight in my loads. the coated 64-gr Travis bullets bullet range from about 63.15 to 65.25 grs, with ~95% of bullets falling into four weight groups: 63.51-63.75, 63.76-64.00, 64.26-64.50, and 64.51-64.75 grs.

Using a Ransom Rest at 50 yards with powder charges weighed to 0.01 grs (scale accuracy is +or- 0.02 grs), my recipe is Starline, R-P, or Hornady brass, Federal primers (or Win), OAL=0.885-0.900, crimp 0.333 to 0.331, and cases lightly belled using a Dillon 550B progressive, with the Uniquetek Powder bar inserted into the powder drop. I take care to make sure the bullet is setting upright in belled case when seating bullet and I try to use the same light stroke pressure and loading rhythm with my 550. 

Note: bullet lengths of 0.885 to 0.900 will not eject from barrel once the slide is dropped. This is because the front of LSWC bullet is forced into the lands where it is gripped rather firmly. This does not happen with tapered bullets like Horniday XTP or Gold Dots. I have forced the fold open and found the bullet stuck in barrel and spilled powder everywhere. However, I have never had to unload my pistol during a match if there is an issue on the line causing an interruption in firing commands. A good match director will usually remind shooters of last command given, i.e., "the command Load has been given," and so fourth. So if you drop the bolt, shoot the bullet if you are using LSWCs.

However, I noticed an earlier respondent used OALs of 0.835; maybe he's on to something there. I know when you drop a 0.900" long round into the barrel, the bullet's rim is well above the breech face.

Despite all the aforementioned reloading care, I do not get all Xs at 50 yards. My Load testing data and example targets are shown below. I only use the 32 in 2700 matches and really enjoy shooting it despite the slurs of "mouse gun" (jealousy I think).

I've notice that my lands and grooves in my 32 ACP barrel are not polished and can't help but wonder if that is affecting accuracy. Has anybody else observed this in their conversion units? I've asked Pardini about it but they have not responded. The 22 Pardini barrels are properly finished and I can't help but think that for a great company devoted to accurate pistols and high levels of competition, not polishing barrels is peculiar to say the least. Nonetheless, I love my Pardini pistol. dipnet

javaduke wrote:Has anyone tried the PMC Bronze 60gr JHP factory ammo? Will it fit the HP magazine?

I tried Fiocchi first (and bumped them as recommended on this forum), struggled with JHP reloads and got too many FTE/FTF's.

Alex at Pardini told me to forget the "old wives tale" about 22 springs in 32 mags - that was relevant to the initial import of 32 conversions only. I bought two extra mags, proved his point, and now have the OEM 32 springs in all four of my 32 mags. No further issues with factory ammo.

So I went with PMC bronze for the last few matches of the season here on the west coast. They cycled consistently. A bit hot, but then all of the factory ammo seems to be similarly hot. I've only managed an 852 in competition and an 872 in practise, both of which are way below my expectation. But I do find the recoil control and trigger adjustment to be problematic. I'm now fiddling with grips and will send my HP back to Alex to tune the trigger over the winter.

But, to answer the question, 100% reliable with PMC Bronze.

Dipnet,

Try your T&B 64gr load with an OAL of .835 and accuracy test it.  My concern with the long load is this.  If you have dropped the bolt and chambered one of those, and then get a command to "make the line safe" (person or animal on the range, range alibi, etc.), you can't do it quickly and maybe not at all.  At .835 the lip of the T&B sits just above the case mouth similar to the way we load SWC's in 45.  I load the XTP's out at the length you are using, but the T&B's have worked well for me at .835.

Guys when I tried .835 I could not get the first bullet to come out of the magazine. It was a complete bitch to remove it. Every time I did this it was the same thing locked up in the mag

James,
That’s called rim lock. 32acp cases have a rim. When the rim of a case gets behind the rim of the cartridge below it, it cannot feed. For me it has only ever happened to the top cartridge in the magazine. I avoid this by not pushing that top cartridge all the way to the rear when I load it. 
I have had no feeding issues with these .835 loads.

I just tried the short OAL (0.850) using different powders from a Ransom Rest and none of the loads worked well at all. I'm sticking the loads around 0.900" OAL. Dipnet

I’d be curious how well they do at 25 yards and indoor 50 ft.  I’ll find out soon enough.

Any reason you didn’t try the .835 length?  I plan on duplicating Dr. Dons load to the letter and see what happens.

Thanks for posting the load data...seems titegroup is also a contender for .32. Good to know. I have 8 lbs not being used!

Further testing using a larger load (2.0 grs Tightgroup) produced the following data at 50 yards. I also tested 60 gr PMC JHP, which is close to if not in the same league with Hornady XTP 60gr. Also tested for the first time Eley 10 22 pistol. Data are attached. I found a small, likely insignificant difference in group size of the short OAL (0.842) vs. long OAL (0.902). The reason I don't load the 0.835 OAL is I can see not reason (it puts the shoulder below case mouth). Dipnet

Greetings Dipnet,

I trust the groups are fired via the Random Rest?

If so, have you tried the Hornady 85 grain XTP bullet with 1.60 (one point six zero)grains of VV N310?

Are the groups round in dispersion; or, narrow left to right and tall up and down?

Thanks for your fine efforts with testing. I know from experience what a chore it can be.

Cheers,

Dave

First time out with 100’s yes 100 grain XTP Hornady’s! I need a few changes to the load but I think they will work in the wind!!!!!! I need a Ransom Rest because I am not the best off of a 5 gallon bucket and a range bag! Lol

Figured you’d just skip the 85s right....lol.

He’ll!
Why even try!!!

Jim,

What powder load and dimensions are you using with those 100gr XTP's?

Guys I told Dave not to give out the info yet because I want the make sure it is ok first! I don’t want to ever give out Info that may get someone hurt or blowup a pistol! 
I am using 
Starline brass
Federal primers
100 XTP’s 
OAL LENGTH FOR NOW IS .915
Not giving the Powder charge yet because it is very close to a compressed load! 
Don’t hate me for being cautious! Just don’t want to hurt anyone

James Hensler wrote:Guys I told Dave not to give out the info yet because I want the make sure it is ok first! I don’t want to ever give out Info that my get someone hurt or blowup a pistol! 
I am using 
Starline brass
Federal primers
100 XTP’s 
OAL LENGTH FOR NOW IS .915
Not giving the Powder charge yet because it is very close to a compressed load! 
Don’t hate me for being cautious! Just don’t want to hurt anyone

Looking forward to Dave’s take on this.

We have messaged each other! Lol!

james r chapman wrote:He’ll!
Why even try!!!

Jim I am just trying to find every point I can get because I am trying to bypass Master and go straight to High Master and I don’t have a high dollar 45 yet!

James Hensler wrote:

james r chapman wrote:He’ll!
Why even try!!!

Jim I am just trying to find every point I can get because I am trying to bypass Master and go straight to High Master and I don’t have a high dollar 45 yet!

My point being what you have is obviously world class!

I get that but I will run out of 60’s by June so I need to experiment and thanks! It’s been a long road because I am not a rich man so I have to think about everything! Even a little on the next shot!

Greetings,

I find it amusing that everyone drank the 32 ACP KoolAid to shoot lighter (60 grain) bullets.

Now it has come full circle and we are back to 100 grain bullets?

Cheers,

Dave

Target below is an old Nygord era Pardini barrel fired at 50 yards. 32 S&W LONG

I think if Hornady still made the 60’s I would have never changed

Yea, those H&N bullets are awesome.......now to just get some for the Long!

Dr.Don wrote:Don't know why some of you are having trouble with the coated 64gr T&B bullets.  The 10-ring group shown below is typical for my gun at 50yds.  It uses 1.8gr N310, but 1.6gr is almost as good, and so is 2.0gr Bullseye.  I use XTP's at the long line because they do shoot tighter, but these groups are really good enough for most of us.

Dr. Don, what press and dies are you using to get your results, impressive
Other shooters at my range are having issues at 50 with the groups near 9 inches.

HSM, I'm loading on a Dillon 550 with RCBS dies.  I made my own 2-step expanders for the powder drop system, but they are also available from Photoescape.