A Dance with Dragons

First topic message reminder :

Well, ladies and gentlemen, after a years of hesitation and years of preparations and a couple of months of making chips I finally present to you the new Dragon!



Please don't let the appearance fool you  This is just a proof of concept made from the most garbage parts I could find in my parts bin. I made it just to see if, well, I can build it (and as a response to the Roy Dean's challenge ). I test fired it today after some refining and it shoots quite well, the muzzle jump is very minimal and the recoil is very pleasant, comparable to that of .38 special wadcutters out of my Model 52.

This, as you can see, is based on the legendary Ed Masaki Dragon. There are some differences though. My goal was to minimize the use of custom parts, so the barrel block and the recoil spring guide are the only parts made from scratch. The barrel is turned from a standard 1911 barrel, I just machined the lower lugs off and turned the chamber area down to about .650". The slide is made from a standard 1911 slide, and so is the slide stop (it's actually a two-part piece, the pin is from the Nelson conversion).

The good thing about it is that the only quality parts you need is the ignition set. The frame rails are not important, the slide fitment is not important, the barrel can be machined from one that lost its accuracy due to worn out lower lugs (or never had it, like some factory barrels with lower lugs cut 10 thou short), there's no need for bushing, no need to drill and tap the slide for scope mount (since the picatinny rail is part of the barrel block), so pretty much all you need there is a good trigger, and it's relatively easy to obtain.

My next step is to build a proper one from good parts and put it through some tests for accuracy and reliability, and then find a CNC company that can machine the barrel blocks for me. If everything checks out, I will be offering it as a conversion service for your existing base gun (think Tisas or Springfield GI). I estimate the price of the conversion to be about $1500, give or take a few. The production version may look slightly different, my tests showed earlier that it doesn't need four gas tubes, so I plugged the bottom ones and left only the top ones functioning. So going forward I will only use two gas tubes. I also might experiment with 6" barrels and see if it makes any difference. And, of course, you would be able to select any options usually offered by pistol builders, like beavertail safety, blued or cerakoted finish, ambi safety, etc.

So, I guess the point of this post was to ask you, fellow shooters, if anyone is interested in purchasing one. There's no point starting the whole thing if I don't see much interest. Please let me know what you think.

E.

How much velocity is lost by porting directly in front of the chamber?

Good question, I don't really know yet, I haven't chronographed it yet. But I shot at 50 yards and the holes were clean and round, so I know the bullets were stable and didn't tumble.

I got to shoot Ed's Dragon at Camp Perry. Definitely an interesting piece. I'm really glad someone is picking up the project. I really hope you can work the bugs out and get it produced at a reasonable cost, or even an unreasonable cost. 

Good luck!

Let's talk about dragons and fire. Are all the what appear to be vent holes in the gas tubes on the Masaki gun functional? Where did his and where do yours get gas from the barrel? Can you see extra blast when you see the gun fired?

This is very cool and I'm fascinated, but not yet committed

If you look at the second picture, the original Mr. Masaki Dragon is the top one. It has two tubes on each side which go into the barrel block and connect to the gas ports drilled in the barrel just in front of the chamber. The idea is that as soon as the bullet starts moving, the extra pressure is vented through these tubes and upwards through the small holes alongside of the tubes.
I initially used the same design, but for some reason four has ports vented too much gas and the bullets were really slow. So I plugged two bottom ports and it did the trick. I was thinking about installing some kind of gas regulator like the ones on piston AR guns but it makes everything a lot more complicated and is not really necessary.
But I would not recommend shooting hot loads, it's really tuned to our standard bullseye loads.Seems like for lighter loads and smaller calibers I can make those gas ports even smaller and farther from the chamber.
Extra blast, no, I haven't seen it but I was testing the gun under bright Arizona sun  I'm sure at the nighttime you may see some dragon fire ) 
I'm resisting making nerdy Game of Thrones jokes and references as much as I can, hope you guys appreciate it ))

Another idea… sorry I can’t help myself. 
Would it be possible to match the barrel and barrel block top profile to match a standard marvel conversion, so that a marvel top rail could be fitted with the same screw hole pattern? Marvel rails are pretty plentiful and lot of options available.

Maybe. Again, anything you put on top of the barrel will be constantly hit by the hot gas out of the vent tubes, so I will need to figure out some kind of blast shield or something to deflect the gas from the red dot.

9000sc with photoescape shades should stand up to the blast nicely!

Videos of the Dragon Gun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBToZp96RuQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDa3bZjeb6c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHBqB3yLEag

Eugene, do you cut checkering? That seems to be the only limitation with the inexpensive 1911's that are widely available as donor guns to convert. Only one that I have found with front strap checkering is the Tisas duty enhanced 45, retails for $700. https://tisasusa.com/tisas-1911-duty-enhanced-45/

Watching the videos there seemed to be more flash coming from the ejection port then the gas tubes.

SmokinNJokin wrote:Eugene, do you cut checkering? That seems to be the only limitation with the inexpensive 1911's that are widely available as donor guns to convert. Only one that I have found with front strap checkering is the Tisas duty enhanced 45, retails for $700. https://tisasusa.com/tisas-1911-duty-enhanced-45/

No, sorry, I don't do checkering, my small bench top mill is just not big enough to stand the frame up vertically in the fixture and have enough Z-axis travel. But I do good old style stippling, if this works for you. Usually in this case I refinish the whole frame though.

I find this very interesting.  Thanks for your work on the project and the communication.  I'm looking forward to updates!

I am following to watch the progress.  I always dreamed of building something like this for what used to be NRA Action Pistol (Bianchi Cup) with a fixed barrel.  Good luck mastering Ed's initial design.

javaduke wrote:For you, John, I'll make it a smart one  With bluetooth, wifi and ChatGPT on board ))

Please don't.

Count me in!

I have a Masaki Ball Gun and was always interested in the dragon gun.  I would be interested in this for sure.

Rodger Barthlow wrote:Watching the videos there seemed to be more flash coming from the ejection port then the gas tubes.

I'm wondering if the vent tubes are really needed. Except for the cool name. A good option for the run and gun folk, though. Ports work best with higher pressure and surface area. A .38 Super (et al.) ported version would do better at keeping the muzzle down. Given the fast burning powders generally used in .45 ACP, would peak pressure be reduced to lower slide velocity? It may max out before the bullet leaves the case. 

Otherwise, I very much like the fixed barrel concept!

I am in for one! what frame are you thinking of, or does it not matter? Thanks! vin C.