Champion's Choice Les Baer ball gun

Does anyone know if the Les Baer ball gun that Champion's Choice sells is the real thing? I'm looking to buy a gun for both leg matches and Bullseye. Just curious as to what these are. Is CC just acting as a distributor?

I don't know about Champion's Choice, but there's a Baer wad gun listed yesterday on commercial row for a nice price.

Hello speleogen,

Yes, it is a true Les Baer and they just retail them.

Jim

Thanks. I'm looking at either that or the Rock River ball gun. The Les Baer got panned in an earlier thread here but I used to shoot one and liked it.

That is where I got my LB Wad gun and didn't have to wait 9 months for it from LB.  Don

If I may, it might be worth looking for an older IL Baer gun.  Another fine option would be to pick up a RRA.  I had a Bullseye Gunsmith build mine and very happy I did.  All will get you points/Distinguished.

Yes they are the real thing. Les has a close relationship with Champions Choice. I think they take the guns the do not quite make the 1.5 group, however that is not a bad thing because of the way Les fits his guns.

...or buy a Springfield RO and have a good pistol smith work it over for less $$ and better accuracy/reliability...

watercam wrote:...or buy a Springfield RO and have a good pistol smith work it over for less $$ and better accuracy/reliability...

I've taken a look at that. The big downside is the lead time. I don't have any .45's at the moment.

speleogen wrote:

watercam wrote:...or buy a Springfield RO and have a good pistol smith work it over for less $$ and better accuracy/reliability...

I've taken a look at that. The big downside is the lead time. I don't have any .45's at the moment.

You can get points with a stock RO. I did before I sent mine off to be worked on.

I have an older LB wad gun with 1.5" guarantee and I've been pretty happy with it.  I tested it on sand bags a few weeks ago after about 25,000 rounds and it still shot close to 1 1/2".

Hello speleogen,

I like/own Baers and I like/own Springers.  Get the Baer.

Jim

rich.tullo wrote:Yes they are the real thing. Les has a close relationship with Champions Choice. I think they take the guns the do not quite make the 1.5 group, however that is not a bad thing because of the way Les fits his guns.

IMHO, I don't believe that any of the 1.5" Baer guns will actually shoot 1.5" 50 yd groups. I do believe that most will come very close. I have my doubts about WC guns shooting 1" 25 yd groups also. I'm sure that they are very close. I think that the only commercial gun manufacturer of the top 3 that shoots as guaranteed is the EB line of guns & that is because he does not make a specific guarantee, only that a good gun should shoot (2.0" groups@ 50 yds) with appropriate ammo. Just my personal opinion here.

Gary Wells wrote:

rich.tullo wrote:Yes they are the real thing. Les has a close relationship with Champions Choice. I think they take the guns the do not quite make the 1.5 group, however that is not a bad thing because of the way Les fits his guns.

IMHO, I don't believe that any of the 1.5" Baer guns will actually shoot 1.5" 50 yd groups. I do believe that most will come very close. I have my doubts about WC guns shooting 1" 25 yd groups also. I'm sure that they are very close. I think that the only commercial gun manufacturer of the top 3 that shoots as guaranteed is the EB line of guns & that is because he does not make a specific guarantee, only that a good gun should shoot (2.0" groups@ 50 yds) with appropriate ammo. Just my personal opinion here.

rumor has it they don't have a 50yard test facility

For spend my money on "guarantee" les baer i will prefer in bought a RO and send to Kc or jon,a Rock River or custom Wadgun By Kc.

You guys crack me up.   If I had a paper punching gun that would not shoot under an inch at 25 yards it WOULD NOT be a paper punching gun at my house.  Maybe shoot steel or BPs with it but NOT bullseye.

LB has not "guaranteed" his 1.5"@50 yds gun for sometime now, maybe about 5 yrs now? His guarantee currently states that this gun was made the same as that of guns that have shot 1.5" groups @ 50 yds.
I have owned 2 LB PII's and still own 1 now. However the 1 that I still own is ser# 25XX and still has the original polish blue side slides. I have also heard that their test range is not a full 50 yds. Additionally his test target shipped with each 1.5" 50 yd gun contains only a group & has no date, no name, no signature, no Ser# verification, nothing.
WC at least documents their test targets very well with all of the documentation a person would want. I believe that it is also shot at 15 yds though.

I dont know about factory targets shot from ransom test with particular loads and their accuracy guarantee .  I know that my 3 year old regular Premiere II .45 will hold a ten ring or better at 50 yards with Federal Match ammo with me shooting the gun off the bench .

WC test groups are not shot from a RR, but I believe 2 hand hold on a rest sitting down.
I believe that LB 1.5"@50yds are shot in the same manner.

Sheriff1962: Sounds like you are getting very close to the max that gun has to deliver.

I agree.  Question .  When person has no access to RR, what is the best bench shooting technique to test guns accuracy ?

I can't answer on that one, Sir, as I am not a B/E shooter. However they're several on this forum that have done that. I believe 2 handed hold, sitting down comfortably, sane bag rest, & faith. As good as you do offhand you probably will do very well.

For you gentlemen that would like to do some Ransom Rest research to see what shoots and what doesn't, look up the member name "LongColt" over on "1911 Forum". Some of the charts have disappeared no thanks to "photoSuckIt" as that was where most of the charts were done. His threads and posts are still there. He tested factory match loads as well as hand loads. Many of the hand loads are combinations of what you guys shoot at both the 25 & 50 yd lines. You might have to be a member to search his name.

LongColt's Wilson Ransom Rest Tests:

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=472069&highlight=LongColt

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=861417&highlight=LongColt