Ultradot negative magnification
+11
joy2shoot
LenV
SteveT
Jon Eulette
javaduke
bdas
SW-52
Chris Miceli
Tim:H11
zanemoseley
Virgil Kane
15 posters
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Ultradot negative magnification
Just wondering if there is any way to reduce the negative magnification on Ultradots ? Screw in lens in place of a sun shade? Cough up big bucks for a better dot?
Every single one of mine (5) has it.
It never bothered me before but lately I've noticed it more and more. Not that I'm a great shot but it sure would be nice to see the black through the Ultradot the same size as the naked eye.
Virgil
Every single one of mine (5) has it.
It never bothered me before but lately I've noticed it more and more. Not that I'm a great shot but it sure would be nice to see the black through the Ultradot the same size as the naked eye.
Virgil
Virgil Kane- Posts : 574
Join date : 2011-06-10
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
Yeah I used to use matchdots but converted over to 9000SC's lately. I had to borrow a buddies pistol last weekend that had the Matchdot II on it, I noticed it some, has a fish eye effect when you're lowering on to the target. Perhaps its made worse since I shoot with 2 eyes open. If you can swing the cash and extra weight I like the 9000SC.
zanemoseley- Posts : 2688
Join date : 2015-07-11
Location : Cookeville, TN
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
Hunt for an older “Oakshore Electronics” Model. I use those and can shoot both eyes open. No imagery issues.
Tim:H11- Posts : 2133
Join date : 2015-11-04
Age : 36
Location : Midland, GA
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
Buy 5 and look through each one, send back ones that you don’t like, I think it comes down to glass quality and tolerances.
Or buy an aimpoint and never worry about it again
Or buy an aimpoint and never worry about it again
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
+1Chris Miceli wrote:Buy 5 and look through each one, send back ones that you don’t like, I think it comes down to glass quality and tolerances.
Or buy an aimpoint and never worry about it again
SW-52- Posts : 805
Join date : 2015-07-20
Age : 40
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
I still cannot believe nobody makes 1.5x or 1.25x red dots for pistols. That seems like it would be a real advantage (and not just for competitive bullseye shooting).
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
Magnified red dots are not legal in bullseye. The bullseye market is small enough to start with, then add the fact it would be non-legal dots and you market is smaller yet.
zanemoseley- Posts : 2688
Join date : 2015-07-11
Location : Cookeville, TN
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
Hmm, the rulebook says, and I quote:zanemoseley wrote:Magnified red dots are not legal in bullseye. The bullseye market is small enough to start with, then add the fact it would be non-legal dots and you market is smaller yet.
Open Division - Any semi-automatic handgun or revolver using any sights, including telescopic, are permitted with the exception of those sights that project an image on the target.
So a magnified red dot would be perfectly legal under the Open Division rules.
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
Where does it say you can’t use magnification in the rules?zanemoseley wrote:Magnified red dots are not legal in bullseye. The bullseye market is small enough to start with, then add the fact it would be non-legal dots and you market is smaller yet.
Jon
Jon Eulette- Posts : 4399
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
I know an AMU shooter with a scope - a Gil hebard (Burris inthink...) scope on his 22.
Tim:H11- Posts : 2133
Join date : 2015-11-04
Age : 36
Location : Midland, GA
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
Talked with a Master shooter last year in person that frequents this site. He thought the price difference wasn't worth spending. But then if I could shoot like him I might not think so either. I shoot both eyes open and can see a distinct reduction in target size with all my UD's. Some are newer and some are old but they all have a reduction in target size.Chris Miceli wrote:Buy 5 and look through each one, send back ones that you don’t like, I think it comes down to glass quality and tolerances.
Or buy an aimpoint and never worry about it again
I'll have to get someone to let me look through their Aimpoint and see for myself.
Maybe that Master shooter is keeping a well hidden secret from me.
Virgil Kane- Posts : 574
Join date : 2011-06-10
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
Hmm. I was always under the assumption that magnification was not allowed. Guess I get to try out my Nightforce BR scope on my 45 wadgun, you think 42x will do?
zanemoseley- Posts : 2688
Join date : 2015-07-11
Location : Cookeville, TN
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
zanemoseley wrote:Hmm. I was always under the assumption that magnification was not allowed. Guess I get to try out my Nightforce BR scope on my 45 wadgun, you think 42x will do?
Check your rule book
Tim:H11- Posts : 2133
Join date : 2015-11-04
Age : 36
Location : Midland, GA
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
I think most of my UD's have a slight negative magnification. It is only a factor if you let it bother you.
I don't know anyone who says that magnification is a benefit for a one handed pistol shooters. It not only magnifies the target, it also magnifies the wobble and movement.
I have an old Leopold 2x LER pistol cross-hair scope that I will sell if anyone is interested. $100 FTF (NE Illinois) or +$10 for USPS shipping. With my arms and eyes it does not look like 2x, more like 1.3-1.5x magnification. PM me or email sdturner (at) gmail.
I agree the price jump from UD to AP is big. UD hits the "good enough" sweet spot between cheap crap and military grade hardware, but they are far from perfect.
The one Holosun I've looked at seemed pretty good. They appear to hit the same price-quality point, maybe a little better than UD. I've heard Primary Arms is the same as Holosun and I've heard good things about Sig Sauer's AP knock-offs in the same price range, but don't have any first hand experience. My only complaint with the Holosun is the 2MOA dot. I prefer bigger.
I don't know anyone who says that magnification is a benefit for a one handed pistol shooters. It not only magnifies the target, it also magnifies the wobble and movement.
I have an old Leopold 2x LER pistol cross-hair scope that I will sell if anyone is interested. $100 FTF (NE Illinois) or +$10 for USPS shipping. With my arms and eyes it does not look like 2x, more like 1.3-1.5x magnification. PM me or email sdturner (at) gmail.
I agree the price jump from UD to AP is big. UD hits the "good enough" sweet spot between cheap crap and military grade hardware, but they are far from perfect.
The one Holosun I've looked at seemed pretty good. They appear to hit the same price-quality point, maybe a little better than UD. I've heard Primary Arms is the same as Holosun and I've heard good things about Sig Sauer's AP knock-offs in the same price range, but don't have any first hand experience. My only complaint with the Holosun is the 2MOA dot. I prefer bigger.
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
2X Red Dot scope...bad, bad, bad idea. Well this one was. I have it mounted on a pellet rifle now.
LenV- Posts : 4769
Join date : 2014-01-24
Age : 74
Location : Oregon
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
SteveT wrote:... it also magnifies the wobble and movement...
I have a hard enough time accepting my wobble as it is. But a magnified wobble?
I used a 9000SC for the first time a couple of weeks ago. It was on a borrowed gun at a match (both my primary and backup had issues). Other than the small amount of extra weight, the scope worked well. No demagnification, clear optics, brightness adjustment easy to use, etc.
joy2shoot- Posts : 570
Join date : 2014-08-02
Location : North Carolina
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
Zane,
I'm taking my hat off for you. I've never seen anyone who can shoot anything with Nightforce 42x Benchrest mounted one handed. It is even more challenging than shooting two handed full frame Nikon with 400mm F2.8 prime attached without tripod. Besides about 3" eye relief might not be conducive for BE type shooting.
Well, I appreciate your sarcasm. However you raise a valid question, - I have Bausch & Lomb 2x28 mounted on one of my 10mm revolvers. One armed hold is challenging, but two armed is very nice. About 9" eye relief if what one would need for BE, and this scope offers just that. Another option would Leupold FXII 2x20. Both scopes aren't much heavier than Aimpoint 9000SC. Advantage here is in the fact that someone who shoots in prescription glasses have option to shoot without such.
Soliciting opinions!!
Thanks,
AP
I'm taking my hat off for you. I've never seen anyone who can shoot anything with Nightforce 42x Benchrest mounted one handed. It is even more challenging than shooting two handed full frame Nikon with 400mm F2.8 prime attached without tripod. Besides about 3" eye relief might not be conducive for BE type shooting.
Well, I appreciate your sarcasm. However you raise a valid question, - I have Bausch & Lomb 2x28 mounted on one of my 10mm revolvers. One armed hold is challenging, but two armed is very nice. About 9" eye relief if what one would need for BE, and this scope offers just that. Another option would Leupold FXII 2x20. Both scopes aren't much heavier than Aimpoint 9000SC. Advantage here is in the fact that someone who shoots in prescription glasses have option to shoot without such.
Soliciting opinions!!
Thanks,
AP
PhotoEscape- Admin
- Posts : 1543
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : Northern Illinois, USA
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
I have used a 2x and 4x scope on a Ransom Rest with very good results. Just for giggles I dry fired the 4x offhand at a 50yd target, then took 5 shots, all in the black. You kind of get overloaded from all the movement but it seemed to be more noticeable when my wobble settled. You definitely can't be a dot watcher! With practice I think a 1.5x or 2x might be doable but I don't believe it would improve your score.
- Dave
- Dave
dronning- Posts : 2581
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 71
Location : Lakeville, MN
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
If I needed another scope I would seriously consider the Aimpoint 3000 on Ebay right now. I don't even need it and I threw out a bid on it. I have one of these scopes on my Nelson and just love it. They have a 1" tube and all your 1" rings will fit. They are also a lot lighter then the 9000. Sold for 273.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aimpoint-3000-Red-dot-scope-used-with-rings/192706046425?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1431.l2649
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aimpoint-3000-Red-dot-scope-used-with-rings/192706046425?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1431.l2649
Last edited by LenV on Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:30 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Sold for 273.00 Good price)
LenV- Posts : 4769
Join date : 2014-01-24
Age : 74
Location : Oregon
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
Very cool Len, I wish they still made that dot!
JayhawkNavy02- Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-03-01
Age : 45
Location : San Diego
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
So, people have tried 2x and 4x, and the magnified wobble is too distracting (and the reduced field of view is probably not helpful, either, especially during rapid fire). That's why I was, and still am, suggesting that a 1.5x or even a 1.25x magnification would be worth trying.
Normally, I'm a dot watcher, but I've been trying the "look at the target, not at the dot" thing (with mixed results so far). For that, in particular, those of us with terrible eyesight (that's me!) might benefit from SLIGHT magnification of the target. And even when I focus on the dot, a slightly "closer" view of the target might be a genuine advantage.
Or, think of it this way... why do people complain about the slight (and it is slight) negative magnification that you get from some UltraDots? Some people dislike that it's not exactly 1x because they shoot with both eyes open so the difference is distracting, or simply because it's a change from looking at the target directly, and then looking at the target through the scope. But others complain that it's a disadvantage because the magnification is negative, so it makes the target look a little smaller and a little farther away. I, for one, would like to try the reverse of that... a LITTLE bigger, and a LITTLE closer.
If UltraDot made a 1.25x version of the 30mm MatchDot II... I'd try it.
Dave
Normally, I'm a dot watcher, but I've been trying the "look at the target, not at the dot" thing (with mixed results so far). For that, in particular, those of us with terrible eyesight (that's me!) might benefit from SLIGHT magnification of the target. And even when I focus on the dot, a slightly "closer" view of the target might be a genuine advantage.
Or, think of it this way... why do people complain about the slight (and it is slight) negative magnification that you get from some UltraDots? Some people dislike that it's not exactly 1x because they shoot with both eyes open so the difference is distracting, or simply because it's a change from looking at the target directly, and then looking at the target through the scope. But others complain that it's a disadvantage because the magnification is negative, so it makes the target look a little smaller and a little farther away. I, for one, would like to try the reverse of that... a LITTLE bigger, and a LITTLE closer.
If UltraDot made a 1.25x version of the 30mm MatchDot II... I'd try it.
Dave
Yosemite Sam likes this post
Re: Ultradot negative magnification
What about something like this ?
http://www.championshooters.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=1562&virtuemart_category_id=102&Itemid=111
http://www.championshooters.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=1562&virtuemart_category_id=102&Itemid=111
TomH_pa- Posts : 160
Join date : 2017-03-17
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