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Comments from Brian Zins in the “Wobble” discussion.
by mikemyers 3/20/2019, 8:48 pm
Comments from Brian Zins in the “Wobble” discussion.
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t7420-can-we-talk-wobble
MOVE TRIGGER WHILE AIMING:
I understand that getting someone to move to the trigger prior to achieving perfect sight alignment / sight picture is challenging. I have been trying to figure out better ways to get folks to understand the concept for years. To dispel the myth or misunderstanding, MASTER and HM shooters are not starting to move the trigger as it falls into the black and hopefully time the shot to coincide with the dot passing into the center of the black. Not happening.
WOBBLE:
WOBBLE EVERYBODY HAS WOBBLE. I HAVE WOBBLE. I also have impeccable trigger control that assists in controlling the wobble of the gun through the pressure being applied to the trigger.
If you hold the gun out in front of you it wobbles, correct? We all have a certain degree of wobble, varied by age, habits, genetics level of fitness and other things. AS we apply pressure to the trigger we will notice that the wobble will decrease, simply because we are now offering pressure of force to part of the gun, the trigger. IF you have a rolling trigger not only are you putting pressure or force to the gun you are also moving something now with that force being applied....the wobble will become even less.
DO NOT try to "time" the trigger break with sights falling into the black. Put pressure on the trigger as part of your grip, start moving the trigger before the sights are even in the black. The sights should settle into your "aiming area", again still moving (roll trigger) or building pressure (crisp trigger) on the trigger for a split second and shot should break.
From the time the gun leaves the bench and you present to the target and the shot breaks it should only take about 8 seconds, 10 seconds on the high end. DO NOT COUNT and pull the trigger. Only through a lot of dry fire will that become consistent. Have a partner time you and see if you are being consistent in your approach.
The beauty of that is if you are consistent in the presentation time frame all you need to do is figure out where in the sustained fire commands do you need start the process for the first shot. Because the first shot of every sustained fire string SHOULD be the same process as every slow fire shot that you make.
3 Guns
3 stages of fire
ONE GRIP
ONE SHOT PROCESS
Trigger movement will slow down wobble to make it easier to pull the trigger. As the pressure builds on the trigger it will help in diminishing the appearance of the wobble. Kinda like balancing a bike on 2 wheels at dead stop without touching the ground. How do we do that?
By applying pressure to the handlebars side to side but also by applying pressure to the pedals forward and backwards. That pressure helps to stabilize the bike. Hence why I say the trigger is used to help stabilize the sights. Not steer the sights but stabilize the sights.
TRIGGER PULL
You absolutely do aim a 10 and shoot a 6 because your trigger pull sucks. That I the whole crux of trigger control. to aim a 10 and shoot a 10 because you didn't screw it up when you pulled the trigger. To quote Robbie Leatham "stop aiming, if you can't pull the trigger without screwing up the sights what is the point in aiming in the first place?"
HOLDING DRILLS
If you do Holding drills do not look at the sights while doing holding drills. The objective is to get to where the finger reacts to what the eye sees. Holding drills while looking at sights is not allowing the finger to react to what the eye sees.
TIMING:
I was at Nationals one year and new young shooter on the Marine Team approached me after one of the 900's and said, "Gunny, I was watching you shoot. Did you know that it takes between 7-8 seconds from the time the gun comes off the bench and the shot breaks in slow fire, every time."
Not something I was conscious of but it makes perfect sense. I begin to the raise the gun in sustained fire after the command "all ready on the left." Do the math. Between 7 & 8 seconds the target faces.
If we are truly using one shot process for all stages of fire the shots should break pretty close to the same time, every time. Our hold should be no longer in slow fire just because we have more time. If we hold the gun longer in slow fire trying to "make it perfect" no wonder people freak out when they get into rapid fire.
It usually takes me about 3 1/2 to 4 minutes to shoot slow fire. With the exception of Camp Perry and windy conditions, if you are taking longer than that you better be aborting a whole lot of shots.
GRIP:
If the gun comes out of your hand. You have to unload and re-grasp and dry fire before putting a round in the chamber. How can you just pick up the gun and shoot without confirming that your grip is correct by dry firing?
When you abort a shot, you need to know why you aborted it. Was the trigger just moving, did the sights move, were the sights not on your target naturally when the gun settled?
If the sights were not automatically aligned to your eye and the target you have a grip issue. Fix it. If its a grip issue you must unload and re-grip and dry fire to make sure it is right.
So many times I have watched people in a match dry fire in prep time. Put their gun down. on the command load, they pick up the gun and load, when the target faces they start shooting. Never once dry firing again after they re-grasped their gun. Why did they dry fire in prep time? I have yet to understand that. I watch people change their grip in the middle of slow fire and never dry fire. How do you know the grip you changed to is right? Dry ire confirms that how you are holding the gun is the best way at that moment.
If you raise the gun to your eye, and the sights aren't where you want them to be, that is a grip issue.
If you raise your gun to your eye, and dry-fire, and the sights move as the gun goes CLICK, that is a grip issue.
If you raise your gun to your eye, and the dot is not in the middle of the sight, that must also be a grip issue.
Do you check these things (and others?) to confirm all is right?
All those have to be present in order to have and understand grip.
(Keep in mind that if the sights are aligned to one another but not on the target then it’s not a grip issue; it’s a body alignment issue. )
SUSTAINED FIRE TRAINING:
Why shoot 5 rounds in timed or rapid fire over and over. Just work on getting the first shot off when the target faces. Not as in the target turns and you pull the trigger, but as in the sights are aligned and you are applying pressure to the trigger and the shot breaks and low and behold the target turned in front of you. Finger reacts to what the eye sees (sights settling on the edge of the target) not the turning of the target.
No early shots. shoot a bunch of 1 shot drills and you will learn to get the trigger to start moving a split second prior to actually exposure of the target. to the point where it almost happens as the target turns. They key is to get away from the trigger starting in reaction to the target moving. Finger reacts to what the eye sees, rather than the seeing the target move.
NON SHOOTING HAND:
If you stand up straight and raise your hand keeping your elbow in place, wherever the hand meets your belt is where you want to have the thumb hook over the belt. Try to put your hand in your pocket without moving your elbow. With your hand in your pocket is your arm still against your body as much as possible? If you are shooting an alibi and experience a stoppage during the alibi, how fast can you get your non shooting hand out of your pocket to clear the stoppage and get back into the string of fire without running out of time as opposed to just lifting your hand form your belt?
---------------------
Brian, I copied everything you wrote in that discussion, tried to organize it somewhat, then entered it here. I can send it to you directly if you want to edit it more, or add to it. Personally, I find it very handy to have all your comments in one place. ...mike
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t7420-can-we-talk-wobble
MOVE TRIGGER WHILE AIMING:
I understand that getting someone to move to the trigger prior to achieving perfect sight alignment / sight picture is challenging. I have been trying to figure out better ways to get folks to understand the concept for years. To dispel the myth or misunderstanding, MASTER and HM shooters are not starting to move the trigger as it falls into the black and hopefully time the shot to coincide with the dot passing into the center of the black. Not happening.
WOBBLE:
WOBBLE EVERYBODY HAS WOBBLE. I HAVE WOBBLE. I also have impeccable trigger control that assists in controlling the wobble of the gun through the pressure being applied to the trigger.
If you hold the gun out in front of you it wobbles, correct? We all have a certain degree of wobble, varied by age, habits, genetics level of fitness and other things. AS we apply pressure to the trigger we will notice that the wobble will decrease, simply because we are now offering pressure of force to part of the gun, the trigger. IF you have a rolling trigger not only are you putting pressure or force to the gun you are also moving something now with that force being applied....the wobble will become even less.
DO NOT try to "time" the trigger break with sights falling into the black. Put pressure on the trigger as part of your grip, start moving the trigger before the sights are even in the black. The sights should settle into your "aiming area", again still moving (roll trigger) or building pressure (crisp trigger) on the trigger for a split second and shot should break.
From the time the gun leaves the bench and you present to the target and the shot breaks it should only take about 8 seconds, 10 seconds on the high end. DO NOT COUNT and pull the trigger. Only through a lot of dry fire will that become consistent. Have a partner time you and see if you are being consistent in your approach.
The beauty of that is if you are consistent in the presentation time frame all you need to do is figure out where in the sustained fire commands do you need start the process for the first shot. Because the first shot of every sustained fire string SHOULD be the same process as every slow fire shot that you make.
3 Guns
3 stages of fire
ONE GRIP
ONE SHOT PROCESS
Trigger movement will slow down wobble to make it easier to pull the trigger. As the pressure builds on the trigger it will help in diminishing the appearance of the wobble. Kinda like balancing a bike on 2 wheels at dead stop without touching the ground. How do we do that?
By applying pressure to the handlebars side to side but also by applying pressure to the pedals forward and backwards. That pressure helps to stabilize the bike. Hence why I say the trigger is used to help stabilize the sights. Not steer the sights but stabilize the sights.
TRIGGER PULL
You absolutely do aim a 10 and shoot a 6 because your trigger pull sucks. That I the whole crux of trigger control. to aim a 10 and shoot a 10 because you didn't screw it up when you pulled the trigger. To quote Robbie Leatham "stop aiming, if you can't pull the trigger without screwing up the sights what is the point in aiming in the first place?"
HOLDING DRILLS
If you do Holding drills do not look at the sights while doing holding drills. The objective is to get to where the finger reacts to what the eye sees. Holding drills while looking at sights is not allowing the finger to react to what the eye sees.
TIMING:
I was at Nationals one year and new young shooter on the Marine Team approached me after one of the 900's and said, "Gunny, I was watching you shoot. Did you know that it takes between 7-8 seconds from the time the gun comes off the bench and the shot breaks in slow fire, every time."
Not something I was conscious of but it makes perfect sense. I begin to the raise the gun in sustained fire after the command "all ready on the left." Do the math. Between 7 & 8 seconds the target faces.
If we are truly using one shot process for all stages of fire the shots should break pretty close to the same time, every time. Our hold should be no longer in slow fire just because we have more time. If we hold the gun longer in slow fire trying to "make it perfect" no wonder people freak out when they get into rapid fire.
It usually takes me about 3 1/2 to 4 minutes to shoot slow fire. With the exception of Camp Perry and windy conditions, if you are taking longer than that you better be aborting a whole lot of shots.
GRIP:
If the gun comes out of your hand. You have to unload and re-grasp and dry fire before putting a round in the chamber. How can you just pick up the gun and shoot without confirming that your grip is correct by dry firing?
When you abort a shot, you need to know why you aborted it. Was the trigger just moving, did the sights move, were the sights not on your target naturally when the gun settled?
If the sights were not automatically aligned to your eye and the target you have a grip issue. Fix it. If its a grip issue you must unload and re-grip and dry fire to make sure it is right.
So many times I have watched people in a match dry fire in prep time. Put their gun down. on the command load, they pick up the gun and load, when the target faces they start shooting. Never once dry firing again after they re-grasped their gun. Why did they dry fire in prep time? I have yet to understand that. I watch people change their grip in the middle of slow fire and never dry fire. How do you know the grip you changed to is right? Dry ire confirms that how you are holding the gun is the best way at that moment.
If you raise the gun to your eye, and the sights aren't where you want them to be, that is a grip issue.
If you raise your gun to your eye, and dry-fire, and the sights move as the gun goes CLICK, that is a grip issue.
If you raise your gun to your eye, and the dot is not in the middle of the sight, that must also be a grip issue.
Do you check these things (and others?) to confirm all is right?
All those have to be present in order to have and understand grip.
(Keep in mind that if the sights are aligned to one another but not on the target then it’s not a grip issue; it’s a body alignment issue. )
SUSTAINED FIRE TRAINING:
Why shoot 5 rounds in timed or rapid fire over and over. Just work on getting the first shot off when the target faces. Not as in the target turns and you pull the trigger, but as in the sights are aligned and you are applying pressure to the trigger and the shot breaks and low and behold the target turned in front of you. Finger reacts to what the eye sees (sights settling on the edge of the target) not the turning of the target.
No early shots. shoot a bunch of 1 shot drills and you will learn to get the trigger to start moving a split second prior to actually exposure of the target. to the point where it almost happens as the target turns. They key is to get away from the trigger starting in reaction to the target moving. Finger reacts to what the eye sees, rather than the seeing the target move.
NON SHOOTING HAND:
If you stand up straight and raise your hand keeping your elbow in place, wherever the hand meets your belt is where you want to have the thumb hook over the belt. Try to put your hand in your pocket without moving your elbow. With your hand in your pocket is your arm still against your body as much as possible? If you are shooting an alibi and experience a stoppage during the alibi, how fast can you get your non shooting hand out of your pocket to clear the stoppage and get back into the string of fire without running out of time as opposed to just lifting your hand form your belt?
---------------------
Brian, I copied everything you wrote in that discussion, tried to organize it somewhat, then entered it here. I can send it to you directly if you want to edit it more, or add to it. Personally, I find it very handy to have all your comments in one place. ...mike
mikemyers- Posts : 4236
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