Front sight width

First topic message reminder :

Somewhat confused with the whole front sight business.  I shoot better with thinner front sight when use centerhold and shoot better with thicker front sight when shoot 6 o'clock or sub six o'clock.......    makes any sense ?

john bickar wrote:

WesG wrote:'Pumpkin on a post'

AKA, a 'flat tire' hold to rifle shooters.

If you're really shooting "flat tire", then I have a couple of ideas to get you out of the Marksman class. Provided you don't move to Texas first.

I was just posting an alternate name for the same thing. I've never used a flat tire hold with the rifle. At least not deliberately. I have alternated between 6:00 and CM, even in the same stage when my eyes were getting tired. And for a couple years I shot 6:00 at 200, and CM at 300. Makes it impossible to forget to put your elevation on ;-)

There's also a 'Reverse Flat Tire'. But I can't come up with any image in my head where that makes sense, unless you hold the gun upside down.

Of course the question comes up re a flat tire hold holding me back ... how would I use that with a dot? ;-)

I used to do well with my 44 revolvers using a 6:00 hold. That was 2 hands, way back when I could still control the tremors in my right hand with my left. I'm pretty sure I could have shot cleans at 25 yds, slow fire of course.

After last weekend's AP match, I started to see the usefulness of a journal. Or at least a post-it in the manual. And, that the manual should actually be READ!

I had no idea there are 2 elevation adjustments on the P8X. But there's another 'short story' in the making.

WesG wrote:

john bickar wrote:

WesG wrote:'Pumpkin on a post'

AKA, a 'flat tire' hold to rifle shooters.

If you're really shooting "flat tire", then I have a couple of ideas to get you out of the Marksman class. Provided you don't move to Texas first.

I was just posting an alternate name for the same thing. I've never used a flat tire hold with the rifle. At least not deliberately. I have alternated between 6:00 and CM, even in the same stage when my eyes were getting tired. And for a couple years I shot 6:00 at 200, and CM at 300. Makes it impossible to forget to put your elevation on ;-)

There's also a 'Reverse Flat Tire'. But I can't come up with any image in my head where that makes sense, unless you hold the gun upside down.

Of course the question comes up re a flat tire hold holding me back ... how would I use that with a dot? ;-)

I used to do well with my 44 revolvers using a 6:00 hold. That was 2 hands, way back when I could still control the tremors in my right hand with my left. I'm pretty sure I could have shot cleans at 25 yds, slow fire of course.

After last weekend's AP match, I started to see the usefulness of a journal. Or at least a post-it in the manual. And, that the manual should actually be READ!

I had no idea there are 2 elevation adjustments on the P8X. But there's another 'short story' in the making.

As an experienced pistol shooter, when I crossed over to high power, I had a tough time trying to understand what the various sight picture terms meant (and still really don't). In particular, I have ingrained the idea of "wobble area" so much into shooting that I never knew how precise I needed to be on that sight picture.

Hm, maybe that's why it took me 10 years to leg out.

Well, if you look at the math of a 12" ten ring at 600 with a 30 cal bullet, the 10 ring at 50 for a 45 slug would be .575".

Probably a more fair comparison would be offhand. That's 2.876" at 50yds. Thats smaller than a B-6 (3.36).

But you've got a coat and glove, and get to use both hands.

Oops, buggered the math. That's for the whole aiming black, 13". 1.376 sounds a bit harder.

john bickar wrote:

As an experienced pistol shooter, when I crossed over to high power, I had a tough time trying to understand what the various sight picture terms meant (and still really don't). In particular, I have ingrained the idea of "wobble area" so much into shooting that I never knew how precise I needed to be on that sight picture.

Hm, maybe that's why it took me 10 years to leg out.

You have to develop the image of a 10 (or even better an X) in your sight picture. You don’t break the shot unless the sights show a 10. One of the best training I had on sight picture and breaking the shot was in a team match. At 600 yard prone My coach was having me favor for the wind changes and he’d tell me to “break a 9:00 o’clock X or 10 throughout the string (and a few other places. Ended up with a 487 for that match. With an M1A. This taught me that you really have to look at the sight picture as well as sight alignment AND details matter.

I’m sure the HM shooters in pistol are capable of seeing to that level. With the sights aligned they know what “picture” will give them a 10 and what gives them an X. They also know what “picture” with the sighs not perfectly in alignment will give them a 10. So if the gun is capable they know the shot will be true.

Maybe I’m not explaining this very well, but there are two aspects to iron sights, alignment and picture. Both have to be “in the zone” to get a 10. Xs are gravy, at least for me.

Hi, as per the issf handbook are we allowed to mount a specific size front sight to our air pistol. For example standard steyr air pistol comes with 5mm front sight. Can we change it to 4mm or 3mm? Thanks

adminbot1911 wrote:It's weird I haven't seen pictures of most of these, but as I've experienced from top to bottom, the holds are:

Frame hold
Cover Black
Center hold
Pumpkin on a post
Six o'clock hold
Line of white
Sub six
Sub frame hold or low frame hold

Anyone can fix what I missed/messed up.

Flat tire. 

Hold into the bottom of the bull slightly.

@ prl01, Yes you can change the front sight to 4 or 3mm. 

@Sheriff1962, yes that makes sense. For Iron sights and a 6 or sub 6 hold, having a front sight width which appears to be the same width as the black helps for sight picture and alignment. Sub 6 is my favorite and recommended by many coaches for ISSF. For CM, some shooters use this, a thinner front blade can help with "seeing" the front blade within the black. This requires very good eyesight and appropriate correction for making the front blade as in focus as possible. 

I have worked for many years on proper sight picture, grip and trigger control. Many focus on one aspect of this list and say trigger control trumps everything. This I disagree with and believe that all three must be integrated to shoot ones best for the match at hand. I would say the grip and trigger pressure must be built into the sight picture as it affects sight picture. Sight picture, i believe, must be completely worked out and understood by the shooter. Sight alignment is part of the sight picture. It is more important to keep the sight picture aligned properly as movement is always present. For me, movement slows within the first 20 seconds and this when i want the shot to break. I do not try for a perfect sight picture. I have learned to trust my hold pressure, trigger pressure and build this into sight alignment and let the shot happen. Do not force the shot unless you have to.