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Wobbley
GerhardG
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Chronograph data in excel
by GerhardG Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:10 pm
Greetings fellow enthusiasts
Bullseye shooting along with reloading is fun. Using a chronograph and collecting data in excel is enlightening.
My equipment a Shooting Chrony set up 15 feet from my muzzle and a string of known quality factory ammo is fired to establish my chrono, lighting, and placement are satisfactory.
Here is a result of last Friday's excursion. CCI 22 LR Standard 40 gr ammo, 5 shot string, fps 1021, 1016, 1020, 1043, and 1012. Avg. is 1022 with a deviation of 31.
A previous visit was with Federal Gold Match 185 SWC. fps 724, 712, 698, 726, and avg 709 fps with a deviation of 41. Once verified I begin to test my reloads.
Here is one of my load results.
Missouri bullet 200 gr 12 BHN LSWC fired from Springfield Range Officer, Mixed Brass, CCI 300 primer Unique powder 5 gr. loaded on a Dillon RL550B, fps 772,784,744 731,762,656,780,695,753, and 762. Avg. 743.9 deviation 128.
I am learning some interesting things along the way. Wondering if anyone might be willing to share some of their quality chronograph work in a spreadsheet with me?
Thank you in advance.
Gunther
Bullseye shooting along with reloading is fun. Using a chronograph and collecting data in excel is enlightening.
My equipment a Shooting Chrony set up 15 feet from my muzzle and a string of known quality factory ammo is fired to establish my chrono, lighting, and placement are satisfactory.
Here is a result of last Friday's excursion. CCI 22 LR Standard 40 gr ammo, 5 shot string, fps 1021, 1016, 1020, 1043, and 1012. Avg. is 1022 with a deviation of 31.
A previous visit was with Federal Gold Match 185 SWC. fps 724, 712, 698, 726, and avg 709 fps with a deviation of 41. Once verified I begin to test my reloads.
Here is one of my load results.
Missouri bullet 200 gr 12 BHN LSWC fired from Springfield Range Officer, Mixed Brass, CCI 300 primer Unique powder 5 gr. loaded on a Dillon RL550B, fps 772,784,744 731,762,656,780,695,753, and 762. Avg. 743.9 deviation 128.
I am learning some interesting things along the way. Wondering if anyone might be willing to share some of their quality chronograph work in a spreadsheet with me?
Thank you in advance.
Gunther
Last edited by GerhardG on Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Data)
GerhardG- Posts : 88
Join date : 2018-07-30
Age : 70
Re: Chronograph data in excel
by Wobbley Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:45 pm
How much crimp are you applying? The high ES of your reloads indicates to me you may need more crimp.
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Re: Chronograph data in excel
by GerhardG Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:59 pm
I have a heavy crimp approx .464 for the Missouri load mentioned. I am tempted to check it out on my optical comparator at work.Wobbley wrote:How much crimp are you applying? The high ES of your reloads indicates to me you may need more crimp.
Gunther
GerhardG- Posts : 88
Join date : 2018-07-30
Age : 70
Re: Chronograph data in excel
by GerhardG Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:18 pm
45ACP Crimp.
by ed.lam.10 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:19 pmI have carefully read the above previous topic.
Thank you
GerhardG- Posts : 88
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Re: Chronograph data in excel
by Ed Hall Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:42 pm
I have a very old Excel file of .22 and .45 data, if you'd like to look it over. Please read all the info on the page about macros and an unwanted linked file before considering downloading. It may even be too old for modern Excel:
Excel Version of .22 and .45 Ammo Testing
Excel Version of .22 and .45 Ammo Testing
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Re: Chronograph data in excel
by S148 Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:36 am
Question: What are you expecting to learn from other people's data? More detail on this might help people provide specific information.
Terminology: you would be better off using the term 'extreme spread' instead of 'deviation' to describe the range of velocities. You don't want 'deviation' to be confused with the 'standard deviation' which is a statistical term describing something else but is related to the range of data.
Terminology: you would be better off using the term 'extreme spread' instead of 'deviation' to describe the range of velocities. You don't want 'deviation' to be confused with the 'standard deviation' which is a statistical term describing something else but is related to the range of data.
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Join date : 2017-07-04
Re: Chronograph data in excel
by PhotoEscape Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:41 am
Gunter, I also would be interested to know your objectives. However I will send you PM with couple of my tests when I get home.
The comment I want to make though, Unique is difficult powder to work with in general, and especially on progressive press with automatic powder measure. It just doesn't meter well. With that if you look at your test data for 200gr Missouri load, and discard 656 and 695 shuts, you'll have ES (extreme spread) in 49, which is already closer to tolerable number for BE loads. I can only speculate what caused these two shuts being out of the line, - two most probable causes substantial difference in powder charge and defects in projectiles. I do load with Unique on Dillon XL650. However each charge is measured individually.
AP
The comment I want to make though, Unique is difficult powder to work with in general, and especially on progressive press with automatic powder measure. It just doesn't meter well. With that if you look at your test data for 200gr Missouri load, and discard 656 and 695 shuts, you'll have ES (extreme spread) in 49, which is already closer to tolerable number for BE loads. I can only speculate what caused these two shuts being out of the line, - two most probable causes substantial difference in powder charge and defects in projectiles. I do load with Unique on Dillon XL650. However each charge is measured individually.
AP
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Chronograph data
by PhotoEscape Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:50 pm
Attached are two files representing chronograph data for testing of 200gr Coated SWC with LabRadar. Each load was tested with 4 strings of 5 rounds fired at 50 yards. Weather conditions: sunny, half value cross wind. Handgun - regular production Colt Gold Cup National match mounted in Ransom Rest. The only adjustment to this gun was done is trigger was lightened to 3 1/2 lbs.
AP
AP
- Attachments
- SR0059 Report.xlsx You don't have permission to download attachments.(12 Kb) Downloaded 16 times
- SR0058 Report.xlsx You don't have permission to download attachments.(13 Kb) Downloaded 5 times
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Re: Chronograph data in excel
by spursnguns Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:19 pm
PhotoEscape wrote: I can only speculate what caused these two shots being out of the line, - two most probable causes substantial difference in powder charge and defects in projectiles.
AP
For what it is worth, I have seen variations like this before and it had nothing to do with the loads. Years ago, we did concurrent tests on two chronographs and got markedly different "simultaneous variations" between the two. The net net, it could also be a glitch in your testing equipment.
Jim
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Re: Chronograph data in excel
by GerhardG Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:01 pm
Hi, I am trying to understand why some loads have a large fps spread. What equipment, how it was used, and how the data is presented?PhotoEscape wrote:Gunter, I also would be interested to know your objectives. However I will send you PM with couple of my tests when I get home.
The comment I want to make though, Unique is difficult powder to work with in general, and especially on progressive press with automatic powder measure. It just doesn't meter well. With that if you look at your test data for 200gr Missouri load, and discard 656 and 695 shuts, you'll have ES (extreme spread) in 49, which is already closer to tolerable number for BE loads. I can only speculate what caused these two shuts being out of the line, - two most probable causes substantial difference in powder charge and defects in projectiles. I do load with Unique on Dillon XL650. However each charge is measured individually.
AP
In 45 ACP case capacity, crimp, primers, brass used, etc are other variables I am interested in. I am not a scientist nor do I wish to make a mountain out of a molehill, just having some fun and find this all very interesting.
I have a bit of data that I also wish to share shortly
GerhardG- Posts : 88
Join date : 2018-07-30
Age : 70
Re: Chronograph data in excel
by GerhardG Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:03 pm
So far some of the feedback has been very helpful for me to improve my process. Thank you
GerhardG- Posts : 88
Join date : 2018-07-30
Age : 70
Re: Chronograph data in excel
by S148 Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:18 pm
Some powders are notorious for producing a wide extreme spread even though they meter well. As noted, some powder don't meter consistently because they have a large flake size, and this can cause wide extreme spreads. Primers can sometimes reduce the extreme spread, for example Federal Match primers. It might depend on the powder.
Velocity data for articles has the average, and sometimes the standard deviation and extreme spread, depending on the purpose of the article and the Editor's/magazine's standard format requirements.
Velocity deviations are not clearly associated with accuracy for the typical handgun at typical handgun distances. See this article for a test of that hypothesis: https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/exclusive-consistent-velocity-accuracy/
Velocity data for articles has the average, and sometimes the standard deviation and extreme spread, depending on the purpose of the article and the Editor's/magazine's standard format requirements.
Velocity deviations are not clearly associated with accuracy for the typical handgun at typical handgun distances. See this article for a test of that hypothesis: https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/exclusive-consistent-velocity-accuracy/
S148- Posts : 319
Join date : 2017-07-04
Re: Chronograph data in excel
by GerhardG Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:04 am
Hi,Wobbley wrote:How much crimp are you applying? The high ES of your reloads indicates to me you may need more crimp.
Sorry, I have .464 to .468
Last edited by GerhardG on Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
GerhardG- Posts : 88
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Age : 70
Re: Chronograph data in excel
by GerhardG Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:07 am
Very Helpful observation, my data seems to agree with you. My Unique powder will be retried with max type loads to see if the range tightens up.spursnguns wrote:PhotoEscape wrote: I can only speculate what caused these two shots being out of the line, - two most probable causes substantial difference in powder charge and defects in projectiles.
AP
For what it is worth, I have seen variations like this before and it had nothing to do with the loads. Years ago, we did concurrent tests on two chronographs and got markedly different "simultaneous variations" between the two. The net net, it could also be a glitch in your testing equipment.
Jim
GerhardG- Posts : 88
Join date : 2018-07-30
Age : 70
Re: Chronograph data in excel
by GerhardG Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:18 am
I thank everyone for their comments.
GerhardG- Posts : 88
Join date : 2018-07-30
Age : 70
Re: Chronograph data in excel
by GerhardG Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:07 pm
I have attached my data collection as of Sept 21 2019 and removed all older files.
- Attachments
- Reloading Data as of 9_21_2019.xlsx You don't have permission to download attachments.(127 Kb) Downloaded 6 times
- Reloading Data as of 9_21_2019.pdf You don't have permission to download attachments.(358 Kb) Downloaded 4 times
Last edited by GerhardG on Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:30 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : added excel file)
GerhardG- Posts : 88
Join date : 2018-07-30
Age : 70
COL variables effect on accuracy
by PhotoEscape Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:37 am
Velocity deviations are not clearly associated with accuracy for the typical handgun at typical handgun distances. See this article for a test of that hypothesis: https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/exclusive-consistent-velocity-accuracy/[/quote]
This probably should be isolated into separate tread. However I start here with a quote from S148's post.
I'm interested to find out if anyone can point to any discussions or articles highlighting how difference in COL of the ammo correlate to resulting accuracy.
Obviously COL variations affect velocity, so Mr. Miller's analyses are applicable. I'm interested to learn if anyone did any COL specific testing.
AP
This probably should be isolated into separate tread. However I start here with a quote from S148's post.
I'm interested to find out if anyone can point to any discussions or articles highlighting how difference in COL of the ammo correlate to resulting accuracy.
Obviously COL variations affect velocity, so Mr. Miller's analyses are applicable. I'm interested to learn if anyone did any COL specific testing.
AP
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