First Shots KKM 13 Twist Barrel

First topic message reminder :

This morning I fired frame mounted Caspian 1911 with 13 twist barrel. I shot 3.7 BE 185, 3.4 BE 185 and 3.5 BE Brazos 160. Everything shot on call. 3.4 shot very forgiving at 50 yards. The 160 and 185 recoil felt identical. Target is 3.4 load. Using 10# recoil spring. I'm going to load up some softer loads and see how it shoots. I'm a slide mount guy, so this feels funny to me. Recovery is lightning fast. I've hardly been shooting but shook them in pretty good today.
I shot 95 & 96 SF, then 40 shots TF all clean. Best target 100-8x.
Looking forward to reduced loads next time out. Will be RR'ing in near future.
I think the faster twist really helped the 3.4 loads stabilize for 50 yds. In the past with 16 twist barrels its not very forgiving. Jerry Keefer was running 3.0 BE. Next time out I will try the same.
Jon

I'm not sure it matters that much. My testing centered on the 180 and 200 gr. bullets from both summers and Brazos. All were coated HiTek. Both will shoot fine at the long line. I did find with my pistol that BE worked much better at the long line and not with the lightest possible loads. On my slide mounted dot pistol 3.5 worked very well with the 180. Something 3.1 - 3.5 should be good. For the short line pretty much whatever functions reliably will clean a target. I prefer the recoil impulse of WST. 3.3 - 3.6 works there.. i look forward to shooting mine this year at our matches..

Nopro wrote:  I have a 13 twist build on order. I need to order some bullets. Should I go with a 180 Summers flat base lswc or something else? After all these experiments is there a consensus on what the best load is for a 1 in 13 twist barrel?

"Best" depends on what you want . If you're planning on a LSWC , I assume you're having a wad gun built , probably with a dot sight. Frame mount or slide mount will make a difference. People perceive recoil differently , personally , I like the feel of the 200gr bullet, it gives a gentle shove, slowly. Some people say it feels too sluggish. Some people like the 160s , I feel like they're too snappy. The good news is that the barrels seem to shoot just about everything well. I had best results with BE and WST , just about every load tried was inside the 10 ring , with no attempt to optimize loads , just standard seating depth, components , etc. The only thing I did was crimp a little tighter than usual , thinking it might help with the light powder charges used . I'll test that theory later when temperatures rise. Have fun and good luck , Richard

Thanks for the responses. I am having a wad gun built with a slide mount for a red dot. Is there much of a difference in recoil between a 180 and a 185 gr bullet? It seems like it would be minimal at best. Also, what's the advantage to a flat base bullet over a bevel base?

Nopro wrote:Thanks for the responses. I am having a wad gun built with a slide mount for a red dot. Is there much of a difference in recoil between a 180 and a 185 gr bullet? It seems like it would be minimal at best. Also, what's the advantage to a flat base bullet over a bevel base?

I doubt any human could tell the difference in recoil. Flat base bullets are generally considered more accurate , bevel base easier to load into the case. Be aware when loading different bullets of the bullet protrusion into the case. ie: a Magnus 185 is going to protrude much further into the case than a H&G 68 style bullet that's been reduced to 180 grs by shortening the bearing surface. That will have a much larger effect on powder charge required , recoil, etc. than a mere 5grs difference in bullet weight.

Bump

Got my newly re-barreled .45 to the range today for some breaking in and testing different bullet weights.
All powder charges were 3.7gr of Bullseye since that is what my Pistol Smith used to function test the pistol.
Bullets were 200gr SWC H&G 130 (my cast) 185gr Zero LSWCHP (I resize and Rooster lube then),180gr Brazos and 160gr SWC (my cast).
Started with a 11lb recoil spring with the 200gr 130's. Barrel fit is very tight and snaps in and out of battery, I had a failure to feed the first round releasing the slide with the slide stop lever but by hand racking the slide it would feed the first round and minor problems with the slide not going into full battery when loading the next round after firing. (barrel was well oiled)
Accuracy was nothing to write home about and disappointing but it could get better once the barrel is broken in. 
The more I shot the pistol the smoother the action felt.
The 185gr Zero LSWCHP has been resized and had rooster lube baked on them, something I do to improve accuracy and reduce leading and it paid off with a 95X6x which included a jerked 7. Function was good with light recoil so I changed the recoil spring and put a 10# spring in for the lighter bullets.
The 180gr Brazos shot almost as good as the Zero's but not quite as I would need to adjust the sight to accommodate the point of impact.
The 160 I cast is identical to the Brazos since I use a Magma mold. These gave me failure to feed first round every time but would feed hand racking the slide. Accuracy was on par to the 200gr 130's. 
Seems this barrel prefers the long nose bullets.
The 1-13" fast twist barrel is very pleasant to shoot and I believe the short dwell time of the bullet in the barrel accounts for that.
Next I will load some up with WST and see how it dose.

Rodger Barthlow wrote:Next I will load some up with WST and see how it dose.

Zzzzzzz....

Asa Yam wrote:

Rodger Barthlow wrote:Next I will load some up with WST and see how it dose.

Zzzzzzz....

Thanks sorry I'm boring you.

Rodger,
Are those 180s the flat base Brazos? Did I send you any 200 gr bevel base Brazos? This is good info as I’m in line for one of these barrels.
Thx
Rod

RodJ wrote:Rodger,
Are those 180s the flat base Brazos?  Did I send you any 200 gr bevel base Brazos?  This is good info as I’m in line for one of these barrels.
Thx
Rod

Hey Rod yes they were. I'm thinking if I increase the powder charge by .2gr as I did for some other bullets they will tighten up. I'm not sold on the Hy tech coating and would prefer regular sized and lubed bullets.
I'll get to shoot some more next week and will load more of the bullets you sent.
I'm not using a rest for testing and shooting all loads off hand to get the feel of what the gun do when fired.
When I get the gun broke in I'll be able to try lighter loads but the way it is right now it's shooting great and very happy with the 1-13" barrel and Jon's work he did on the pistol.

I really like the regular 180gr (lead, blue lube) summers swc flat base. Nice and clean and drilled out of Jon’s 1:13 gun at very low charge weights. I experimented with coated bullets and found them unnecessary.

I'd like to hear what loads you've tried with the Summers flat base swc as I just bought a box of them. I've used 4.0gr of BE with good results. I am using a slide mount optic so I don't know how low I can go on powder and still function.

3.7 be is my go-to load for slide mount. That was 1:16 twist. 3.3 worked good in the frame mount with 1:13.

That is crazy,