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What to do with duds?

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What to do with duds? Empty What to do with duds?

Post by bruce martindale Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:15 am

It seems we always have a bunch of damaged and mis fire ammo in our league. 

My question is what does your club with them? 

Most clubs have a dud can, some liquid filled. Others send collections off to incinerators or waste disposal firms. 
I think most simply discard with the trash.

I was curious so did some experiments.

Dry stored duds wth only one previous hit typically fired unless they were Remington then the success rate was lower. Two or more hits almost never fired.

Water soaked duds, when dried out, had a 66% rate of firing as normal per conditions above.

Water soaking duds makes a god awful mess with a toxic solution that is bad to dispose of.

I made a 1/4" slotted aluminum bar to hold shells while l bent the heads off. Quick and easy disassembly.

 To my surprise, even if the rounds didn't fire due to priming errors, the recovered power burned vigorously.

Some powder had deteriorated and gas pressurized the case. Those opened with a pop.

Conclusion is don't soak duds.
Trash disposal keeps the quantity at low safe levels.
If you do collect them, keep dry and cool. Maybe disassemble and scrap. Most clubs have some members who like to tinker with stuff or burn in the fire pit. They 22s only make a pop. I believe the militay burns ammo for disposal.

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Post by PhotoEscape Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:02 pm

Bruce,
I presume your post pertains to 22 ammo.  However regardless, I recycle everything.  Bullets go to bag that eventually will be mailed to my friend to reclaim lead and use it to cast new bullets, brass goes in the bin that will find its way to local recycling company that will pay me something for brass, powder goes into box and will be used as lighter fluid in my outdoor fire pit.  If I have rounds that are fire-able - I will use them for training in particular pistols.  Keep in mind that 9mm and other CF calibers even if they do not fire, are good for combat style training - safe addressing of malfunction with two, and, especially, with one arm is fundamental skill that must be practiced by every shooter.  I also remove primers if they are not imprinted, and re-use them in training ammo.
AP


Last edited by PhotoEscape on Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : adding info)
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Post by sharkdoctor Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:23 pm

A datum point re:22LR.  Some old (20yr+ surplus Rem Golden from the CMP) would not fire with 3-4 good firing pin hits. This includes the majority of the ammo I tested from the lot. Powder would burn, and when the empty case base was heated, the primer would fire with a very loud report. The priming compound was intact around the base rim, but just not sensitive to firing pin impact. I mention this if the brass is recycled. It could be quite dangerous in a molten mix.

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Post by Asa Yam Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:43 pm

bruce martindale wrote:It seems we always have a bunch of damaged and mis fire ammo in our league. 

My question is what does your club with them? 

Most clubs have a dud can, some liquid filled. Others send collections off to incinerators or waste disposal firms. 
I think most simply discard with the trash.
...
SNIP
...
I believe the militay burns ammo for disposal.
  One club I belonged to disposed of centerfire ammo by donating it to the local police department, who then gave it to the bomb squad.  The squad used the stuff during their training exercises.

  Re: military disposal.  Incineration is one option, EOD disposal another.  Remember the large ammunition dumps in post-Sadaam Iraq?  Hard to burn a large (city plus) size pile of ammo, much harder if there are multiple dumps that size.  

  • Believe the incinerator option normally uses a special furnace designed to contain metal fragments resulting from "burning" ammo.  This allows for a more complete (and localized) pile of residue for post-inactivation cleanup.  IIRC, in a pre-WW2 experiment, a pro-firearms group (NRA or NSSF) experimented with the effects of burning large quantities of small arms ammo, i.e., several hundred pounds.  They noted that brass fragments (from the casings) were what flew furthest, but the resulting projectiles were unable to penetrate the outer layer of a firefighter's gear.  This info is now part of training for all fire departments.  
  • "Burning" large munitions (bombs and rockets): EOD disposal is advised.  Ever see films of fires on US Navy aircraft carriers?  The movie of the USS Forrestal (ex-CV-59) fire is required viewing for ALL US Navy personnel.   Damage to the ship was the result of the detonation of NINE large (500+ lb.) bombs, jet fuel, and inexperienced firefighters.

Links for USS Forrestal fire:
YouTube Video "Trial by Fire", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHZmgqTgSgI;
Wikipedia entry, "1967 USS Forrestal Fire":  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire

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Post by Wobbley Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:53 pm

Video on point.


https://youtu.be/3SlOXowwC4c
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Post by Guest Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:41 pm

Wobbley, excellent link - very interesting.

However, a few months ago, when I dragged the garbage can out from my local pistol range and took it over to a brazier we have near one of the other sheds I just about s.... myself when several rounds of ammo cooked off in the fire! I distinctly heard a projectile bounce off one of the adjacent shed walls. Probably not life threatening, except for the possible heart attack! 
lol!

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Post by Wobbley Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:12 pm

If you’re going to burn them I’d make an incinerator from a  16 gallon drum and surround that with a 55 gallon drum.  The fire would be in the 16 gallon and the bullets go in the fire.  The might leave the 16 gal drum but they’d likely not penetrate the 55.
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