Slide or frame mounted scope?

Being brand new to bullseye, I have a curious question. I have seen some folks that have had slide mounted optics and some with frame mounted. Is one considered better than the other or is it just a matter of preference and feel?

Thanks,
JS

I think it is preference/feel although certainly the optics on the slide will take more abuse.

I prefer the slide mount as for some reason the other mounts never feel right to me.

I would guess, the significant added mass would really effect the functioning of the pistol if it's not tuned perfectly. I could also imagine that the slide mounted scope would produce a smoother recoil.

JS

I have both and I prefer the frame mounted type.It seems to me the frame mounted optics allow more leeway in balancing powder/bullet charge.The shot recovery also seems faster with the frame mounted optics because of less moving mass.The frame mounted optics seem to have a faster recovery time also- not to mention less severe pounding upon recoil.

Ernie,

That's kind of what I figured, but have no experience with either set up. I am just in the beginning stages and my goal is to strictly shoot the hardball gun to get a badge, the gunsmith in me always wants to know what people prefer.

JS

I prefer the slide mount. Never had an optics failure, and never had any trouble with my gun cycling. I don't like having all of that mount hardware and the rail covering up the slide. I did have an extractor that was failing during a match on a gun with a frame mount, and with that frame mount in the way it was very difficult to clear the malfunctions. Since then, slide mount is the way for me.
I kinda like the feeling of the scope rolling back then back home. It all feels slower to me with the scope on there. My dot seems to sit there longer before recoil during follow through. It helps me call my shots.

Try both. Each feels a bit different. There are Masters and High Masters that use each design.

I have read arguments for and against each. The majority of shooters have slide mounts.

I don't believe that there is a real advantage or disadvantage to either. I use a Weigand frame mount myself. My main reason for using one was that I have a Springfield Range Officer and a lot of the rear of the slide is milled out for the target sight.

I also have a springfield slide with the back milled out for a target sight. My mount only has 3 screws on it. Never had a problem with a loose rail. Never, not even once. I even filed out a relief so my target sights are still under the rail.

When optics first appeared on the BE scene, ala Joe Pascarella and the Oxford, then Aimpoints.. they were frame/grip mounted. I don't know the exact history of the how, why or when of slide mounts... Approx. 10 years ago, when I first met David Sams, he being, a strict advocate of the frame mount.. I was skeptic..as we all know the big guns use slide mounts..Several years ago, I began sponsoring a shooter who is doing very well, but developed a super serious case of tendonitis, shooting slide mounted optics. The added weight to the slide must be controlled by the muscles when the slide is stopped in recoil . Long story short, after surgery, the optics were moved to the frame, using a modified Sam's frame mount, the very light Aimpoint Micro Dot, and switching to left hand, the shooter is again competitive and shooting lower Master score level..I carried this even further in effort to prevent any injury to the left arm.. I lightened the slide, and coned the barrel, similar to the race gun style guns, and tailored the loads to the new system. This gun is an absolute pleasure to shoot. The bridge type frame mounts are to be avoided.. The dust cover is not suited to support this style optic system without modification. Dave's mount does this and is why it has been so successful..
Dave is manufacturing, and selling the frame mounted Aimppoint Micro mount we designed for the injured shooter.. Give Dave a call if you are interested..

Jerry

Jerry,
Do you have a picture of what you are describing? I guess I haven't seen anything other than a "bridge type" frame mount.

jscandale wrote:Ernie,

That's kind of what I figured, but have no experience with either set up. I am just in the beginning stages and my goal is to strictly shoot the hardball gun to get a badge, the gunsmith in me always wants to know what people prefer.

JS

Well JS, if you're concerned about what kind scope mount you need for a CMP pistol,
Don't be, because the CMP pistol match is open sights only. You can scope/dot your
NRA Bullseye pistols. If it makes you feel better, you can shoot Bullseye using open sights.
I shoot bullseye using open sights; I also shoot ISSF 10M AP60 and 50M Free pistol using open sights.

Tony

Rob Kovach wrote:Jerry,
Do you have a picture of what you are describing? I guess I haven't seen anything other than a "bridge type" frame mount.

Drilling and tapping for the base plate..Base plate is held in place tightly with two end screws; the base plate is then silver soldered, surface ground to true and square it with the frame. The scope mounting holes are drilled and tapped..

The torx head screws are machined to a metal to metal fit within the counterbore, for added strength and rigidity.Unseen in these photos, is a .032 deep step machined into the scope mounting plate. This sits exactly on the base plate and is pulled in to rest on the shelf for added rigidity..

Base is finished..

Ready for a Micro or Ultra Dot. This system was originally designed by Dave for the Aimpoint Comps, and Ultra Dots.. It has been upgraded to use the Micros, which I consider the ultimate dot presently available.. Here is the prototype gun which has been shot extentsively, and entering its second year of hard use. Not the first problem has been encountered..Many may have seen it at Camp Perry, being used by the shooter I sponsor...I make these for my own use, but Dave has them ready for sale...and or installation.





Here is a slide mount



Jerry

jscandale wrote:Being brand new to bullseye, I have a curious question. I have seen some folks that have had slide mounted optics and some with frame mounted. Is one considered better than the other or is it just a matter of preference and feel?

Thanks,
JS

One reason for a frame mount on a 1911 is if you run a conversion kit to shoot 22s for cheaper practice you can use the same frame mounted scope. Just a thought.

Chip

Jerry,
That slide mount is very nice. I like that very much. The frame mount, meh...
Thanks for the photos!

Jerry,

I wish I could find one of those tapping/drilling tools you have chucked up there!

As I stated earlier folks, I am personally NOT interrested in shooting a scope myself because I am strictly hardball for a reason. I am just curious because of what I have seen.

Jerry,
That's a pretty slick setup. I like the addition of the bolt handle on the slide. Very unique indeed. Nice work! Question for ya...in your experience with pistols, do you see a significant benifit of the one sided scope mount over the other types of 2 sided mounts that fasten directly to the frame?

Thanks,
JS

jscandale wrote:As I stated earlier folks, I am personally NOT interrested in shooting a scope myself because I am strictly hardball for a reason. I am just curious because of what I have seen.

Jerry,
.in your experience with pistols, do you see a significant benifit of the one sided scope mount over the other types of 2 sided mounts that fasten directly to the frame?
Thanks,
JS

Oh yes...Absolutely.. That's why I stated in my first post to avoid the old bridge style.. I have installed countless bridge mounts thru the years, and each and everyone was problematic... The dust cover is just too thin to support the mount.. Dave's mount, which is silver soldered and bolted is with out a doubt very solid... and will not come loose..the permanent base is installed at approx. 55 minutes, to compensate for the barrel angle at lock up..

Please excuse the cosmetics of the frame mount gun...It is in a state constant flux... as the shooter grows in skill, making adjusts to the system ergonomics..If you look at the front top of the slide, and the bottom of the scope extension, and compare the distance to the slide mount, the frame mount brings the scope much lower. A distinct advantage...I can probably find some more room by flat topping the slide and crunching the the side plate bolt centerline...

Jerry

ChipEck wrote:

jscandale wrote:Being brand new to bullseye, I have a curious question. I have seen some folks that have had slide mounted optics and some with frame mounted. Is one considered better than the other or is it just a matter of preference and feel?

Thanks,
JS

One reason for a frame mount on a 1911 is if you run a conversion kit to shoot 22s for cheaper practice you can use the same frame mounted scope. Just a thought.

Chip

Maybe, but there are a few issues with this. You are probably going to have to remove the rail on the Marvel unit for it to fit underneath a good frame mount, which will be quite low, if it is a good one.

A Marvel unit with a a rail is still much lighter than a 45 slide. The weight difference between the two will make it feel like a totally different gun, and the trigger may not have the same feel with the Marvel unit than with the slide it was built for.

I personally prefer a frame mount, but with my Marvel, the scope is attached to the rail. It is the easiest and cheapest way.

Jerry, great looking mount. I have both slide and frame mounts on several pistols.
The slide mounts I have on my .45 and .38 super. The frame mount which is a bridge mount was installed on a Larry Lueteneger .38 spl. wad cutter built on a Caspian frame and slide. Your old Buddy Richard Fried mounted it for me and he put two plates on the dust cover to support it. Richard has retired now and only does special projects that don't consume large amounts of his time.

Rodger Barthlow wrote:Jerry,  Your old Buddy Richard Fried mounted it for me and he put two plates on the dust cover to support it. Richard has retired now and only does special projects that don't consume large amounts of his time.

Wow,
Hello Roger..It's  been a long time.
Hope you are doing well.
I am up there with Richard...Getting old..I decided last year to stop..work the back log off..Almost done.. I am only working for a very few select shooters now, and will be doing some experimental projects I have wanted to try for a long time, but was never able too, because of backlog..Made a couple of 1911 barrels that tested outstanding...Want to work on that some more...

Take care
Jerry

jscandale wrote:Being brand new to bullseye, I have a curious question.  I have seen some folks that have had slide mounted optics and some with frame mounted.  Is one considered better than the other or is it just a matter of preference and feel?

Thanks,
JS

 Reveiwed this thread...
I too was a die hard slide mount advocate for many years..
David Sams always advocated the frame mount.. I ignored his passion for it..until the female shooter I sponsor suffered serious tendonitis that required surgery.  The constant repetitive force from the heavy slide, and a heavy recoiling Nosler long line load, was the cause.
It was necessary to change her to left hand, if she was to continue competitive shooting.. Determined to avoid injury to that arm, I went to Dave and we discussed the ins and outs of the frame mount.. I wanted the Aimpoint Micro for it's light weight... I used Dave's tried and true base system, but it was set up for the Ultra Dot and Aimpoint Comps.. I designed and fabbed the micro base to attach. Dave is now marketing these Micro units... I also sought the advice of a renown race gun builder and friend Chuck Warner, of Arizona.. The gun now uses a very light slide, and stronger recoil spring. Switched to cast lead bullets long and short line. The gun is completely responsive to tuning, and a joy to shoot. She is a top contender, ...soon to be Master.. and  best of all no more injuries..  
Jerry