Swaging First Attempt - How to load?

Below is a pic of my first attempt at swaging a bullet.  An 85 gr. Hornady 32 cal. XTP is sitting beside one of them for comparison.  The OAL is .548" compared to the .492" of the Hornady.  It doesn't show in the pic but the bullet has a slight hollow base.  The problem now is what to do for a load.  I can't find anything that matches the shape and size of this bullet.  I intend to try this out in a Pardini HP chambered in 32 ACP.

That’s cool...can you post a larger picture?  Hard to see that little one
Corbin dies?  I checked for a press wand dies and they are saying several month wait.

The weight is not the issue but the length might be.  That 85 xtp takes up a lot of case volume.  Look forward to your testing etc.

Greetings,

Photo shows no detail. Too small.

What diameter is the bullet?

What does the bullet weigh?

What Bullet Lube?

Any idea what the bullet alloy is?

Either way, set up the chronograph and begin with VV N310 powder.

Start at 1.2 (one point two) grains and increase as needed to obtain an average velocity of 700 FPS.

Welcome to the Twilight Zone. There is little to no published load data for either bullet.

Cheers,

Dave

I swaged the bullet to .316 in diameter but sized it down to .312" for no reason other than that's what I thought it should be.  The bullet weight is the same as the XTP, 85 gr.  I sized it that way for comparing it to the XTP.  No lube on it yet.  I haven't decided whether to tumble lube it with Alox or ? or roll a groove and use a more conventional wax type lube.  I used pure lead to get a feel for the Walnut Hill press but will eventually move up to something a little harder.  The dies used were from RCE purchased used.  I'm working on machining my own and this set was just purchased to be used as a guide.  It looked like something I might use for 32 ACP so I swaged a few to see how they would turn out.

Sorry for small photo.  This is the first time using Flickr to host an image.  I had a Photobucket account long ago but that doesn't work anymore.  I'll try to post something better when something is figured out.  Too bad we can't just upload an image directly.

You sort of can.  If you want send me the pic and I’ll post it for you

lablover wrote:You sort of can.  If you want send me the pic and I’ll post it for you

I sent you a message so you can post the pic.  Thanks!

beeser wrote:

lablover wrote:You sort of can.  If you want send me the pic and I’ll post it for you

I sent you a message so you can post the pic.  Thanks!

Replied.

Looks like a Corbin press might be available.  Dies however not gonna happen.   Hmmmm, wonder if I could get someone to make me a set. 

lablover wrote:

beeser wrote:

lablover wrote:You sort of can.  If you want send me the pic and I’ll post it for you

I sent you a message so you can post the pic.  Thanks!

Replied.

Looks like a Corbin press might be available.  Dies however not gonna happen.   Hmmmm, wonder if I could get someone to make me a set. 

I hear ya.  Both of the Corbins are tough to nail down for making a set, which is the reason I'm trying to make my own.  I've never done this before so the outcome is dubious at best.  I'll post my progress as it comes along.

Pics posted for beeser 

beeser wrote:I swaged the bullet to .316 in diameter but sized it down to .312" for no reason other than that's what I thought it should be.  The bullet weight is the same as the XTP, 85 gr.  I sized it that way for comparing it to the XTP.  No lube on it yet.  I haven't decided whether to tumble lube it with Alox or ? or roll a groove and use a more conventional wax type lube.  I used pure lead to get a feel for the Walnut Hill press but will eventually move up to something a little harder.  The dies used were from RCE purchased used.  I'm working on machining my own and this set was just purchased to be used as a guide.  It looked like something I might use for 32 ACP so I swaged a few to see how they would turn out.

Sorry for small photo.  This is the first time using Flickr to host an image.  I had a Photobucket account long ago but that doesn't work anymore.  I'll try to post something better when something is figured out.  Too bad we can't just upload an image directly.

Greetings,

0.312" will fit the leade of your barrel better than a 0.314".

Pardini 32 ACP barrels are throated for the 0.312" bullet. (Yes, the 60 grain XTP was originally 0.312". I still have some in the shop.)

Lee Liquid Alox works rather well. I swaged, lubed, loaded, and shot 100 rounds last week in my 32 ACP. No barrel leading, just the usual fouling at the start of the leade.

Since you swaged to 0.316" and sized back down to 0.312", do not expect great accuracy.

Lead bullets generate higher pressure than jacketed bullets. Reduce the powder charge used for jacketed when using Lead.

Start low and work your way up using a chronograph.

You are making progress. Keep good records and continue to test.

Cheers,

Dave

Greetings,

Found some images of a Pardini barrel that had a bit too much pressure.

Use caution when loading...

Cheers,

Dave

beeser i was thinking about resizing some T&B's also, let me know if you try. I have nothing to loose as they are pretty much worthless the way they are now.

ASchlem wrote:beeser i was thinking about resizing some T&B's also, let me know if you try. I have nothing to loose as they are pretty much worthless the way they are now.

Yes, I intend to give them a try even though they may not work out.  Just curious of the results.  I already shot them with the .314" diameter as they came from T&B using 1.4 grs. of N310 and the same OAL as the loaded XTPs.  My groups were about the same size except about 6" higher.  It's beginning to be driven home Dave's often recommendation to chrono trials and keeping good records.  There's much to learn.

fc60 should answer this, but resizing a swaged bullet is likely to disturb the base.  One of the positive attributes of swaging is that it produces a highly uniform bullet base.  The base is the last thing that touches the barrel and is pretty important to accuracy.  When you squeeze a bullet to resize it, that lead has to go somewhere and the only place for it to go is the two ends; its like an extrusion.  So you want your swaging dies to produce a bullet with the desired dimensions and no further processing other than careful lubing.  I suspect that rolling a lube groove in it is not ideal either for the same reasons.

Greetings,

Sizing a bullet 0.004" smaller is moving a lot of metal.

The pressure exerted to push it though the sizing die has a tendency to bump it larger as it goes through the sizing die. Especially with pure Lead.

What results are bullets that are no longer identical to each other. This adds another variable to the process.

Since your swage die is producing 0.316" bullets, just machine a new die body 0.312" and lap the punches to fit.

The hollow base does help. Below is a test of 0.312" 65 grain HB bullets I tested in a factory Pardini barrel.

Your bullet design looks interesting. Does the long nose cause interference in the magazine?

Groups fired at 50 yards via a mechanical fixture.

BEAR IN MIND THAT MY POWDER AND POWDER CHARGE ARE UNDOCUMENTED LOADS.

Cheers,

David

I worked up a dummy round with an OAL of .984, same dimension used with the Lyman #313249 cast projectile just to see if it would fit in the Pardini magazine and chamber.  Seems OK.  I recall someone asking that question.  I was thinking of following the same load data found in the Lyman Reloading Handbook, maybe 1.5 grs. of Bullseye and see how it performs.  I want to make sure the #313249 has the same length of my swaged projectile though before proceeding.  Anyone have one of these cast that can measure it?  Nothing was found online.  I also plan to size at .312, .313 and .314 and use a 25:1 lead/tin mix besides the pure lead already swaged.  As for lube I will be using some Liquid Alox on just plain skirts and standard wax type lube while sizing after a groove or ? is rolled on.  Should be fun playing around with this projectile design while I'm making my own swaging dies.

Greetings,

YOU NEED A CHRONOGRAPH.

The Pardini chamber is not the same as a SAAMI 32 ACP chamber.

Velocity=Pressure.

Cheers,

Dave

fc60 wrote:Greetings,

YOU NEED A CHRONOGRAPH.

The Pardini chamber is not the same as a SAAMI 32 ACP chamber.

Velocity=Pressure.

Cheers,

Dave

I have an Oehler 35P chronograph and will be using it for the above tests.  Do you see any problems using the starting loads from the Lyman Handbook?  I would like to use N310 but I couldn't find anything published for it.  I also want to make sure I'm not taking up too much space in the case by at least comparing the length of the published #313249 projectile with my own.

Greetings,

The Starting Loads you mention from the Lyman handbook.

Which edition of the Lyman handbook are you using?

For what cartridge? 32 ACP or 32 S&W Long?

Cheers,

Dave

fc60 wrote:Greetings,

The Starting Loads you mention from the Lyman handbook.

Which edition of the Lyman handbook are you using?

For what cartridge? 32 ACP or 32 S&W Long?

Cheers,

Dave

50th Edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook
32 ACP

These are a similar bullet if not the 313249.

Wobbley wrote:These are a similar bullet if not the 313249.

Thanks!  The ones I swaged are .560" long, which makes sense since mine have a slight hollow base and a little meat in the nose while having the same weight.  If I load at the published .984" OAL that means my projectiles should go into the case about .040" more.  I'm not sure I want to do this now.

Just a couple of comments here although I am no where near the expert that Dave Wilson is on swaging.  
    I was able to buy some H dies from Corbin ready made in November, although it did not come with the external punch that I wanted.   
    I purchased the dies in .314 based on the advice of Pardini, and others on this forum who have done testing of the 32ACP.  Pardini said, and I quote, “even though the current 32ACP has a tapered barrel, (they refuse to call it a choke) they still feel that .314 is the right lead bullet. “ 

Dave Corbin has been very responsive and helpful and machined me a set of punches to go with my die body that give me the ability to swage almost any 32ACP bullet.  Those don’t have the wait time that the die bodies do, or to have a full set of custom dies made, because they have the punch blanks already worked up.  

Basic rule is:  you can have it “good fast of cheap”  pick any two.  I’m sure a call to Corbin with an offer to beat the list price by a substantial amount might move you up on the priority list.   These dies require case hardening, and diamond lapping in order to really perform.    Getting a machinist to replicate what  Corbin is already set up to do, will, I think, be very expensive indeed.  
    
    I have been focusing on swaging hollow base Bullets with a Keith nose.  
I have no definitive results to report as yet because I have been unable to shoot at fifty yards and chronograph.  My general impression at the 25 yard line, is the swaged bullets are cutting much cleaner holes than the T&B 64g powder coated Bullets with 1.6g of VV310.    
I have also tried swaging the 78g lead round nose T&B Bullets and the Brazos high tek gold coated Bullets of the same weight.   I feel that 1.6 of VVN310 is a bit punchy for those heavier Bullets.  I also wonder about the optimum crimp.  My gut tells me that just enough to make sure it feeds well, and does move either into or out of the case during chambering is probably enough.  But I have not determined that best point yet.  

Also a big caveat that I picked out of a previous thread.  In general, you have to get the OAL below .945 in a new case to keep a .314 diameter lead bullet from locking into the lans and grooves, at which point the only way to unload is through the barrel.  
    The .312 Hornady jacketed bullet does not do this.  

I would be interested to hear of any tips and tricks that others have discovered by either swaging and/or reloading 32ACP.  Been shooting bullseye and reloading for 13 years steady but this swaging stuff is new to me.  I will try and post some pictures later.

Thought I’d share my recent 32 acp loading based on some of the things I’ve been reading here. I new to the 32 loading process. But I am using a Star

78 gr Brazos Bullet
Bullet Length 0.470”
Base to Shoulder 0.250”
Shoulder to Tip of Bullet 0.230”
OAL 0.925”
Shoulder to Base Brass 0.695”
1.6 gr BE 
Crimp 0.325”
Star line Brass


Work in progress. Have function fired in custom Shlien 1:10 twist with 0.311 bore in MG4. Brass ejects about 3-4 ft to the right and is soft shooting. It was about 45 degrees out so I would think in warmer temps that recoil would possibly sharpen up. I need to buy some smaller powder bar bushings for my Star.
I just loaded another test run to see how they group. I was paying more attention to function than my shooting the other night.
Jon