45 ACP SWC seating depth compared to Federal Match ammo for Bullseye Powder

C.O.A.L.  & SWC vs 45 ACP Federal Gold Medal 185gr. FMJ-SWC Ammo C.O.A.L.
The C.O.A.L . for the Federal 185 SWC length is much shorter than other books, subject to Powder. I am interested in Accuracy for Bullseye. I am using Bullseye Powder for this issue, Unique Probably should not be as short.

 I have experienced issues with some COAL loadings when I follow some recommendations in that when loaded into magazines cartridges may get stuck in magazines. Examples, 45 ACP Chip McCormick Shooting Star, Kimber Crimson Ultra Carry II, and my Glock G34 Magpul mags.

 In regards to my 45 ACP loadings and looking at the Federal Gold Medal 185 Match, perhaps I should just adjust all my Semi Wad cutters to no more than 1/32 inch above the case mouth. Using my Dillon RL550B Dies leaving just enough to apply a light taper crimp.

 I think I may have to readjust some of my loads per above but before I do, what do you think?


 Regards Gerhard

Hey Gerhard!

I seat all SWC in 45 ACP to about .920" from the shoulder to the base. I use a seating stem that seats on the shoulder, So I can swap between different SWC bullet styles without changing the die (ie 185 HPSWC and 200 SWC).

The Federal 185 GMM are button nose SWC's, which are significantly shorter than typical 185 SWC.

Dave

GerhardG wrote:I have experienced issues with some COAL loadings when I follow some recommendations in that when loaded into magazines cartridges may get stuck in magazines. Examples, 45 ACP Chip McCormick Shooting Star, Kimber Crimson Ultra Carry II, and my Glock G34 Magpul mags.

 In regards to my 45 ACP loadings and looking at the Federal Gold Medal 185 Match, perhaps I should just adjust all my Semi Wad cutters to no more than 1/32 inch above the case mouth. Using my Dillon RL550B Dies leaving just enough to apply a light taper crimp. This is probably the best approach. 

 I think I may have to readjust some of my loads per above but before I do, what do you think?


 Regards Gerhard

What lengths are you loading the SWCs to that makes them stick in the magazine?

For 185 grain SWC from Bayou Bullets, 3.7-3.8 grains of Bullseye.  I seat them so there is about a finger nail thickness of the side of the full diameter part of the bullet showing, translates to an over all length of about 1.24 inches.  These bullets are longer than the Federal Bullet but the end result is a round that is still shorter than regular 230 grain ball ammo.  I use a .464-.465 taper crimp, some people use more crimp some less.  The end result is a round that is X ring accurate at 25 yards (the jerk pulling the trigger is not). I don't think you need to worry about overall length with a 185 grain SWC in most 1911's.  Good luck.

Use shoulder to case head measurement.
Different SWCs use slightly different powder charges.

GerhardG wrote:C.O.A.L.  & SWC vs 45 ACP Federal Gold Medal 185gr. FMJ-SWC Ammo C.O.A.L.
The C.O.A.L . for the Federal 185 SWC length is much shorter than other books, subject to Powder. I am interested in Accuracy for Bullseye. I am using Bullseye Powder for this issue, Unique Probably should not be as short.

 I have experienced issues with some COAL loadings when I follow some recommendations in that when loaded into magazines cartridges may get stuck in magazines. Examples, 45 ACP Chip McCormick Shooting Star, Kimber Crimson Ultra Carry II, and my Glock G34 Magpul mags.

 In regards to my 45 ACP loadings and looking at the Federal Gold Medal 185 Match, perhaps I should just adjust all my Semi Wad cutters to no more than 1/32 inch above the case mouth. Using my Dillon RL550B Dies leaving just enough to apply a light taper crimp.

 I think I may have to readjust some of my loads per above but before I do, what do you think?


 Regards Gerhard

You are on the right track with just having a little shoulder of the bullet above the case mouth. Of course you need to seat so that the cartridges feed through the magazines, but what you are doing should accomplish this. As has been said, I use a special seating die in my Dillon press that seats on the shoulder of the case. As stated, it allows the exchange of different SWC bullets without adjustments. It also seats the bullet squarely in the case. This is the seating die I use for .45 ACP SWC bullets: https://uniquetek.com/product/T1561

BE Mike wrote:

GerhardG wrote:C.O.A.L.  & SWC vs 45 ACP Federal Gold Medal 185gr. FMJ-SWC Ammo C.O.A.L.
The C.O.A.L . for the Federal 185 SWC length is much shorter than other books, subject to Powder. I am interested in Accuracy for Bullseye. I am using Bullseye Powder for this issue, Unique Probably should not be as short.

 I have experienced issues with some COAL loadings when I follow some recommendations in that when loaded into magazines cartridges may get stuck in magazines. Examples, 45 ACP Chip McCormick Shooting Star, Kimber Crimson Ultra Carry II, and my Glock G34 Magpul mags.

 In regards to my 45 ACP loadings and looking at the Federal Gold Medal 185 Match, perhaps I should just adjust all my Semi Wad cutters to no more than 1/32 inch above the case mouth. Using my Dillon RL550B Dies leaving just enough to apply a light taper crimp.

 I think I may have to readjust some of my loads per above but before I do, what do you think?


 Regards Gerhard

You are on the right track with just having a little shoulder of the bullet above the case mouth. Of course you need to seat so that the cartridges feed through the magazines, but what you are doing should accomplish this. As has been said, I use a special seating die in my Dillon press that seats on the shoulder of the case. As stated, it allows the exchange of different SWC bullets without adjustments. It also seats the bullet squarely in the case. This is the seating die I use for .45 ACP SWC bullets: https://uniquetek.com/product/T1561

Are there any other brand of dies that offer this "seating from the shoulder" feature or is this unique?

Also, can the Dillon dies be used with presses that are made by other brands?

There are some aftermarket seating die stems that fit in RCBS and other brands of dies, I found one on ebay that seats on the shoulder of the bullet, it was a few years back that I bought it so I am not sure of the seller.  I think that you can search this site and find references to it.

Yes, Dillon dies, except Square Deal dies, can be used in other presses.

CR

The 45ACP pistol is a petulant pistol. It was designed for 230 hard ball and if fed that, will run forever. SWC profiled bullets are not hard ball. When I shot USPSA feeding ie: timing is everything. I tried to micromanage the distance from case mouth to shoulder. In a word Maddening!

So here's the solution I found.
Using 200gn. SWC.
Load to an overall length of 1.25" and don't worry about the exposed shoulder. This gets the round starting to chamber as the slide is coming forward, minimizing the distance between the round and the ramp.
Crimp: I use enough to prevent bullet set-back. One of the most dangerous things that can happen. I use an extremely scientific process to test. Load a dummy round, take "Chanel-locks" and see if you can push the bullet deeper. If not, your good.

Full disclaimer: I'm using Lee seating and FCD in a Dillon 550B.

The above is what I found to work well for me. Your mileage may vary.

Texasref wrote:The 45ACP pistol is a petulant pistol. It was designed for 230 hard ball and if fed that, will run forever. SWC profiled bullets are not hard ball. When I shot USPSA feeding ie: timing is everything. I tried to micromanage the distance from case mouth to shoulder. In a word Maddening!

So here's the solution I found.
Using 200gn. SWC.
Load to an overall length of 1.25" and don't worry about the exposed shoulder. This gets the round starting to chamber as the slide is coming forward, minimizing the distance between the round and the ramp.
Crimp: I use enough to prevent bullet set-back. One of the most dangerous things that can happen. I use an extremely scientific process to test. Load a dummy round, take "Chanel-locks" and see if you can push the bullet deeper. If not, your good.

Full disclaimer: I'm using Lee seating and FCD in a Dillon 550B.

The above is what I found to work well for me. Your mileage may vary.

Thanks for the great suggestions. I was going to order some 185 SWC and noticed there are  different shapes available. Magnus Bullets has one that looked preferable has a short nose and  longer bearing surface (see no. 802 in the link). 

http://saas.shopsite.com/magnusbullets/store/page8.html

Is this a bad design to use in the 1911? It sounds like this may have feeding issues based on its shorter Overall length. If the no. 802 is going to have inherent feeding issues, which of the other SWC shapes can you recommend from that site? 

Thanks,
-TH

You seem to be relatively new to this. Check out the stickys for bullseye loads. There are relatively few issues with "long nose " SWCs versus the shorter ones for bullseye guns and loads. But there are guns that like both or one over the other.

You will find my preferred load, and many others there, that will serve as good starting loads.

Before taking off in some direction based on basically anyone's post (including mine) take a while and read through a lot of the previous topics and posts. The search function is your friend.

CR

I’d suggest the 185 swaged swc hp, simply because it loads the same length as the 200 gr swc that’s pretty much foolproof for chambering problems.
Believe it’s #814

The FEDERALS shoot great, but, I have had intermittent feeding problems in several 1911’s. The 801 pretty much duplicates the federal

CR10X wrote:You will find my preferred load, and many others there, that will serve as good starting loads.  

CR

I appreciate OP asking questions before "doing things", and trying to understand what needs to be done in order to have it done properly!

Reloading requires attention to details, A LOT OF IT!  And that is applicable to every single post in this tread, - that is why I highlighted part of the phrase from Cecil's last post.

Federal GM 185 SWC is based on H&G #130 bullet design.  Parameters for loading this bullet cannot be used interchangeably with loading 180/185 SWC of H&G #68 design. Thus the first step would be to identify what exactly you are loading bullet wise, and collect information specific to the parameters for loading this particular projectile.  Using sticky notes on this forum is an excellent advice, - I personally created MS Word file, and copied many posts with parameters offered there with a lot of appreciation to folks who shared their load development work.  Once you identify parameters, and before you are ready to start loading, you need to identify appropriate tools for loading particular projectile.  Very specifically, and as it was mentioned in some posts, - steam for seating die and crimping method.  Suggestion to use UniqueTek's p/n T1561 is a very good one if you are using Dillon's seating die.  It will work on almost every SWC profile.  And that is determining factor for selecting seating steam, - it is advisable to have different steams for different bullet profiles, that allow for having a least part of the bullet inside of the steam, and pushing on as much surface of the bullet's sides, as opposed to just pushing on the nose of the bullet.  Pushing on the nose deforms bullet ever slightly, and that can affect feeding (and ultimately accuracy of the ammo, although conditions of the bullet's base is the most determining factor for the accuracy!).  However it is also very important to understand what Cecil means when he wrote what I highlighted.  Yes, you can adopt what you find in stickies.  But if you really want to derive the most accuracy, you need to work up your own load that is specific to your pistol.  Without going into much details, here is my own example from recent testing of 185gr #130 bullet.  Using N310 powder under this projectile, I determined that 3.30 gr load with CCI350 and WLP primers was good for two of my pistols, but didn't work well for the third one.  Accuracy was excellent in all three, but the third one had occasional cycling issues and NLB on last round.  For the third pistol I had to go with 3.50gr of the same powder and WLP primers as neither CCI300 & CCI350 worked.  Truth be told I didn't play with crimp.

Once again - ATTENTION TO DETAILS!

BTW - Glock 34, TMBK is a 9mm gun.

AP

james r chapman wrote:I’d suggest the 185 swaged swc hp, simply because it loads the same length as the 200 gr swc that’s pretty much foolproof for chambering problems.
Believe it’s #814

The FEDERALS shoot great, but, I have had intermittent feeding problems in several 1911’s. The 801 pretty much duplicates the federal

Thank you very much for your reply. That makes sense to go with the 185 SWC HP since it allows for a longer bullet at that weight. I was wondering why there is a HP and a non-hollow point version of the SWC. The increased bullet nose length to aid feeding seems to make it an obvious choice now.

May not be as obvious as you think.  Some barrels like swaged bullets, others lead a lot.  Start reloading with some jacketed and or hard cast lead.  Then branch out as circumstances and experience dictates.  I generally recommend simply buying quality 200 grain cast lead SWCs to start.  It's generally easier to find a decent load and they are cheap enough to shoot and train with. You will see recommended OAL or shoulder lengths for most of the loads in the stickys for the individual bullets.

CR

+1

CR10X wrote:May not be as obvious as you think.  Some barrels like swaged bullets, others lead a lot.  Start reloading with some jacketed and or hard cast lead.  Then branch out as circumstances and experience dictates.  I generally recommend simply buying quality 200 grain cast lead SWCs to start.  It's generally easier to find a decent load and they are cheap enough to shoot and train with. You will see recommended OAL or shoulder lengths for most of the loads in the stickys for the individual bullets.

CR

Thank you very much for your advice.