How can I improve my revolver shooting

by mikemyers 3/28/2021, 12:49 pm

There's a saying that goes something like "Be careful what you wish for, as it might come true." Despite that, I thought the best way to get feedback as to what I'm doing right and wrong in shooting a revolver would be to post a slow motion video and ask for feedback.

I can shoot this gun one handed or two handed. Week after week I'm getting better at one handed shooting with it, but when using two hands, it almost feels like I'm using a rest (I guess in a way, I am - my left hand). The gun is a Model 17-5 S&W 22 Revolver that my gunsmith just went through to replace the cylinder stop, clean, lubricate, and tune the gun. It should be in good shape, and one of the experts at my range shot it, resting on the table, and got an excellent group, so I think the gun is in good shape. I replaced the "coke bottle" stock stocks with Nill stocks, with a better shape and finger grooves.

This is an email I sent to a friend for feedback - am copying it here:

I went to the range yesterday, Saturday. I asked a friend to use my phone and capture a slow motion video of me, shooting my S&W Model 17-5 22 revolver. This video was shooting two-handed. Next time I’ll get a recording of my one-handed shooting. One thing at a time.

My grouping wasn’t horrible, but it’s not as good as I hoped for. It’s not as good as what I thought I saw while shooting. If I was calling my shots, they all went into the X.

Here’s the video, can you point out things that I should do differently?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JU5fIh6Jus

I don’t think I’m gripping the gun hard enough - it reacts more than I expected, for being only a 22.
My hands don’t slip on the Nill grips, as they seem to slip in the standard S&W “coke bottle” grips.
I was shooting sub-6-o’clock hold, and I thought I was more steady than usual.
The gun had just been gone through by Frank, my gunsmith, so it should be in perfect condition.
I would like to think I can do better.
The most difficult thing for me was seeing the black sights, under a “covered roof for the gun range” so it’s all dark, while looking out at the target which is lit in bright sunlight.
Maybe I should paint my sights white????
(Ignore the two 38-Special holes, from someone else’s gun.)

Here's the target, six rounds from my gun, and two from a new Python I got to test:

How can I improve my revolver shooting Img_4013

I know I'm messing up somehow, or the group would be tighter. Feel free to say anything you want, about what you think I'm doing wrong.

ALSO:
I know how much better I shot using "area aiming" than when I was aiming for the bull. That was with a red dot sight. For this video, I was using steel sights, a sub-6-o'clock hold, and it was a struggle to see the black front and rear sight in front of the white target all brightly lit with sunlight. There is a tiny white spot on my front sight, but I couldn't see it at all. I was trying to concentrate/focus on the front sight, and deliberately NOT pay much attention to the target - which was a little blurry, but not much. That's more difficult than shooting with "center hold". .....but even then, I'm usually just aiming a red dot at the bull. With steel sights, I try to ignore the bull, and concentrate on the front sight.

by SteveT 3/28/2021, 2:48 pm

Sometimes it's hard to differentiate between front and rear sights when shooting from a dark firing point. Shine a light on the sights or step in front of the overhead if allowed.

If the edge of the front sight is disappearing into the rear notch side you either need a narrower front sight or wider rear notch. There should always be some white on the sides of the front post. I have long arms and have opened the notch on just about every open sight gun I own.

I don't see anything obvious in the video. I haven't had much luck with video analysis unless the problem is throwing the shot out into the 0-zone. My advice for trying to make video analysis work is to try the following

Don't move the camera while shooting, put it on a tripod. You are looking for movement in the gun/hand/wrist and movement of the camera hides it
Use the fastest frame rate and highest resolution possible, but try slower and lower res settings to see if the individual frames are clearer
Use bright lights or full sun
Shoot close up on the different areas: muzzle, grip, wrist and trigger
Shoot in front of a high contrast background with a reference grid, especially when looking at the muzzle so you can see the movement
Shoot from the side, above, below and at angles
Watch for movement or changes in grip just before the gun recoils

As good as cameras are, most (all?) cell phone or reasonably priced cameras don't have a real shutter so they aren't really taking a series of still pictures, they are capturing a series of moments in time as the bits gradually change. When the video is rolling our eyes average it out and it looks clear, but stop on any frame and the image is not clear so it's hard to see frame-to-frame differences.

If anyone knows of a decent high speed camera with a shutter (mechanical or electrical) for no more than a few hundred dollars please let us know.

by Jack H 3/28/2021, 2:56 pm

Let's see the real time view.

In real time how long are you trying to perfect the shot.........

by mikemyers 3/28/2021, 5:53 pm

Jack, no can do. Usually I record in real time, then slow it down. This time I set the iPhone to "slow motion" and recorded - no idea what the speed was. I figured if I'm making a. mistake, it will be obvious.

I hope to do this again tomorrow, with my left hand in my pocket. I'm also going to shoot center hold, as I find sub-6 frustrating if I want to use "area aiming".

I'll be happy if I can shoot this revolver as well as I shoot my Model 41 with a red dot on top.

As to how slow or fast I shoot, I was at a "pace" that others use for slow fire.

I didn't think that big heavy revolver would move so much!!! Oh well.

by Jack H 3/28/2021, 6:55 pm

If at slowfire pace, why not rest between shots.

by LenV 3/29/2021, 1:16 am

Put a dot on it. I think that would help.

by mikemyers 3/29/2021, 6:46 am

Sometimes I do rest between shots, but I was thinking I'd find something in the slow-mo video that I could improve. LenV, I know that mounting a dot would help, and it would most likely help me decide what I need to do better.

After watching this video, checking if my hands are moving on the gun, and anything else "obvious", I couldn't find anything to correct.

So, what I'm left with, after a lot of dry-fire, is that I do better with only one hand on the gun, and the only thing left that is a likely cause of opening up my group is that I'm disturbing the sights as I fire. With a dot, that is obvious. With steel sights, it's not so obvious, but that would explain everything.

Last night I spent most of the time dry-firing, and giving all my concentration to the trigger. By watching for any change in the front sight "moving" in relation to the rear sight, I discovered that I wasn't doing this as well as I should. So, that is what I am going to work on improving. Maybe my "limit" of how well I can shoot is just due to my "limit" of how well I can keep the steel sights aligned properly.

Thanks for the feedback.

by CR10X 3/29/2021, 6:59 am

...and it was a struggle to see the black front and rear sight in front of the white target all brightly lit with sunlight. There is a tiny white spot on my front sight, but I couldn't see it at all.

Maybe my "limit" of how well I can shoot is just due to my "limit" of how well I can keep the steel sights aligned properly.

Most people will stumble over the truth and then pick themselves up and continue on (or keep posting) as if nothing happened.

and

DUH! There is no "Maybe" about it!

by mikemyers 3/29/2021, 8:08 am

Yeah, I guess I'm "most people", and unfortunately, "stumbling" over the truth isn't the same as recognizing it.

One "truth" is there ain't no way I'm ever going to be able to shoot like you.
My "reality" is that even so, I can still improve.
Maybe that's a false reality, and just wishful thinking.

My "solution" was to post this slow-motion video - done that before, and people here always see something I was unaware of. Those things have been corrected, no more flinching, no blinking, eyes stay open, the gun has just been tuned, ammo is good, reloads look good, and so on. What's left, is my own ability, or lack of.

For better or worse, I'm not "competing" with you, or anyone else in this forum. My competition is myself, "yesterday", and that's why I put the word >limit< in quotes. Mostly because of what I read here, and practice it, my "limit" is still improving, but physical limitations are pretty difficult to improve on.

I guess I don't recognize "the truth", but even "the truth" can often be changed with enough hard work... but the clock keeps on ticking, and I keep getting older, and eventually I know I'll need to accept that. But not yet.

by chopper 3/29/2021, 10:24 am

Mike, that target looks pretty good to me, even if you used 2 hands or 1. Myself I prefer the Weaver stance over the Isosceles that you're using because it's steadier and if you're strong hand eye dominant it's perfect. Try some dry fire at home and see what I mean, you could even lean your head against your strong arm to steady things even more.
Sight alignment is your choice, I changed to center hold much easier than searching for a sub-6 hold when shooting rapid. It took me about a week of training to get used to it, I probably won't go back to sub-6 again. It will take some practice shooting at your range to adapt to the lighting. Personally after my last breath in while lifting, I'm getting my sight alignment in the white part of target, concentrate on those sights especially the front while pulling down on the bull. If you can't keep them aligned then abort and start over. Remember to keep some pressure on that trigger even though it's about 2 lbs in single action.
Dry-fire on a blank wall at home until your sight alignment is steady when the hammer drops. Then do this at home dry-firing to get accustomed to live-fire : at 10 ft put a piece of paper on the wall with a .5" black filled in circle, use that as a simulated target. You might be able to adjust your lighting to what the range is like also.
Remember you can teach an old dog new tricks, always. Have fun doing this, it's you vs target at your own pace, be honest with yourself and give the best of your ability on every dry or live shot. Write down what's important to you to achieve your good shot, that would be your process, you might have to change it over time.
Good luck, Stan

by John McCormick 3/29/2021, 10:39 am

I get the impression you're using a two-handed hold as a means of training towards the goal of improving your one-handed skills. I found by accident that, for me anyway, it does help. I had pretty much given up on improving my BE shooting when we moved from the northeast, and weekly BE competition, to Florida. I went back to a two-hand hold, the way I had done for my 25-plus years on the police department. Groups went from mediocre to nice and tidy. It was simply a matter of going back to what I was used to. But a few weeks ago I decided to give BE shooting another try, and I now find that my one-handed shooting is vastly improved. There's still a lot of wobble, but my trigger control and timing have improved. Purely anecdotal, I know, and there's no match pressure to factor in, but maybe there's something to it. Keep going.

You could try repositioning your support hand so that its thumb is above your strong-hand thumb. You can use the left one to cock the hammer.

by CR10X 3/29/2021, 10:43 am

You know, I wrote a nice explanation of a number to things to address in your response. As a matter of fact, it was pretty damn insightful.

And after I thought about it, your continual use of the incorrect concept of "competing", or comments on shooting or not shooting better or worse than someone else and not even recognizing the quote was not about "truth", but about seeing what's there; I realized that it was not beneficial for me to continue the conversation.

Best of luck in your future endeavors.

CR

by mikemyers 3/29/2021, 3:03 pm

CR10X wrote:........your continual use of the incorrect concept of "competing", or comments on shooting or not shooting better or worse than someone else and not even recognizing the quote was not about "truth", but about seeing what's there; I realized that it was not beneficial for me to continue the conversation......

I disagree. I know I'm "wired" differently than many other people, and I very often see things "differently", but sometimes that is beneficial.... and at others, like communicating with you, not. But after thinking what you wrote, the way I think about things, I went back to the range today, and thanks to feedback from you and others here, I shot the following target.

Please do post what you were thinking, even if you're sure it's a waste of time. I may not "get it" at first, but after churning around in my brain, things may settle into place.

How can I improve my revolver shooting Img_4014

I adjusted the sights for center hold, with the steel sights in front of the "bull". Almost all of my attention was on shooting without disturbing the sight picture. For one round my hand "twitched" or something.

Stan, I spent the whole night last night dry-firing, trying to not disturb the gun as I shot. Things slowly improved over what I could do before. All of this was one-handed. I got to the range today, and started out one handed, but I couldn't keep the gun steady enough, so I used my left hand as "a rest". I accept that this is cheating, but I haven't given up on one hand shooting. As to sight alignment, the only way to shoot for me is center-hold. Anything else feels strange. I feel comfortable with something lined up with the center of the target, but I know the most important thing is for the front sight to be centered, and in line with the rear sight. The most difficult thing for me is not disturbing this aim as I fire.

John, yes, you got it, along with the side benefit of going home with nice targets, my "trophies" for the day. I need to do both. I missed this month's Bullseye Match at my club, but I want to be ready for next month's match, and for better or worse, I'll be shooting one handed.

CR, I can't help that I think "differently". Many times this has been good for me, as I can solve problems others can't, as I see the problem very differently. My body is just wired differently than most, which is why it took me a decade to learn from you how to call my shots. Something finally started to work within my brain. What you write and say eventually does sink into my brain, just like things Dave Salyer tells me. Maybe I'm just a slow learner. But I was thinking of what you wrote when I got to the range this morning, and while maybe I didn't understand it the way you intended, it was still useful. Anyway, please do write what you're thinking, even if you think I'm a "block-head" dork. Eventually I'm likely to catch on.

by Jack H 3/29/2021, 3:16 pm

Suggestion: Shoot ONE shot at a time. Do it as best you can according to what you have learned and experienced in these last few years. Do it one handed. Shoot reasonably quick. Rest as much as needed. Call and evaluate the positive. The positive needs to be seen AT the sights, not the target. What is on the target is a a result of what you do AT the gun.

by mikemyers 3/29/2021, 7:58 pm

I expect I will continue with one of my dedicated 22 pistols, not the revolver, most likely with a red dot sight. The revolver was just for enjoyment, but the pistol is what I'll use at the matches at my club. I also need to start shooting for the online "match" being held in this forum - well, it's not really a match, but I was doing that every week before the virus put an end to my shooting.

During practice/training, I'll follow the advice here, one shot at a time, one handed.

I understand the need to see it at the sights (and call the shots), before I see anything on the target. For anything serious, I use NRA targets, not the shoot-n-see stuff.... but that stuff is great for just relaxing at the range.

I wonder why nobody else here posts photos of their targets? Sometimes I feel like I'm a total newbie, in a forum filled with bullseye specialists - until LenV posts, and then I feel comfortable again.... :-)

by Sa-tevp 3/29/2021, 8:57 pm

mikemyers wrote:I wonder why nobody else here posts photos of their targets? Sometimes I feel like I'm a total newbie, in a forum filled with bullseye specialists - until LenV posts, and then I feel comfortable again.... :-)

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t4052-clean-a-target-show-us

by LenV 3/29/2021, 9:10 pm

Ok Mike, here is me making you feel better. Maybe. The sun was shining bright and I headed to the range Saturday. My hip was killing me as was my second shot so I drafted my wife. She cheerfully posted targets, policed brass and spotted for me. It only cost two shrimp baskets. Disclaimer: I only take pictures of good targets.

How can I improve my revolver shooting 20210313

How can I improve my revolver shooting 20210311

by mikemyers 3/29/2021, 9:49 pm

Dang, that's WAY impressive!!!! Going to the range with your wife for a fun day's shooting, and getting results that I would die for!! With both 22 and 9mm.

How do I feel? About how I'd feel if I was going to some city, and thought I was almost there, only to find a road marker saying some number with lots and lot's of "0" characters after it.

All I can say, is to repeat the old Cunard saying "Getting There is Half the Fun!".

Dang again, Impressive with a capital "I".

If I could shoot targets like that, they would be framed on my wall. Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought you would fill up the 10-ring, but to fill up the "X"???

by LenV 3/30/2021, 1:13 pm

Not all that impressive. Remember the part about my hip killing me? I was sitting down with my wrist on a sandbag for the 9mm. I was shooting at a "ready fire" pace. When I was ready I fired. The 41 was fired rapid fire but still using support. I was there to confirm zeroes and test new barrel. Barrel failed.

How can I improve my revolver shooting 20210314

by mikemyers 3/30/2021, 3:09 pm

Thanks for the information, and congratulations to the photographer - your wife? She did a great job. Not sure where that place is, but you're lucky to have a perfect place like that to practice.

On to this morning - when I got to the range, I shot three targets two handed, loading one round, then setting the gun down, and loading the next round, and so on, for 10 rounds. I was fresh, not at all tired, and hungry. Anyway, the photo below is the second target of the day. So as of the end of March, 2021, I guess this is typical of what I'm capable of. (I did re-adjust the sights between targets.)

I then switched to one hand, and while my wobble grew, I shot much better than I expected. All of these early shots were "aimed at the bull".

Towards the end of today's session, I shot my final three targets using "area aiming", only 5 rounds each to eliminate any error from reloading. The first two were one handed. On my last target, the lower one, I tried two hands and point aiming again. Today's exercises convinced me that from now on I will *only* shoot one handed.

That very last target is a perfect example of why Dave Salyer wrote his articles about area aiming. This is a perfect example of why area aiming is NOT good. All were aimed at the bull, and all ten rounds hit the paper all around the bull, with NONE of them inside the bull. This is also the last time I will try to hit the bullseye. I know better than to do this, but today was for trying stuff out, and learning.

Early target (shot two handed, loading one round at a time, 10 rounds):

How can I improve my revolver shooting Img_4017

Last three targets
(Top two are one handed, using area aiming, the target below them was shot two-handed, aiming for the bull.)

How can I improve my revolver shooting Img_4018

For unknown reasons, I seem to shoot this old Model 41 better than my other target guns. I replaced the Matchdot II with the One inch Ultradot I bought from you (Len), which for unknown reasons seems so much better than the larger sight. I know the weight is much less, and I enjoy "the view" - crisp, clear, focused nicely, perfect dot, light, light rings - what's not to like? :-)

I will follow the advice I've been given and go back to lots of dry-fire, with only this gun, trying to do this every day. Some of that time I'll use my one pound wrist weight.

Many years ago, my goal was getting all the holes on the target paper with two hands.
Then my goal changed to getting them in "the black".
Then it was a big step backwards, using only one hand, and I repeated the two preceding steps.
For a while now it has been getting all the holes "in the black".
I guess for now, I'd like to get them in the 10-ring again, one handed.
Where I go from there, I dunno.

by LenV 3/30/2021, 11:54 pm

Mike, Another tidbit. There is a sticky above where shooters can post good targets. When I joined this forum in 2014 I was just getting back into Bullseye after a long hiatus. I thought what a neat idea and posted a bunch of targets before I had an epiphany. None of the other Masters, High Masters were posting any of their targets. They don't need or feel the need to get feedback from the group for shooting a good target. Could you imagine one of the High Masters posting pictures of their 18+ clean targets after every match? Now I will post targets in the ammo section or equipment section if I am testing loads or equipment but you won't see me posting in the sticky. I always thought that was for targets shot in matches but of course it can be used by anyone that shot a target they want to show.
This long spiel was an answer to your question about why more shooters are not posting targets. Shooting time is another big reason why not also.

by mikemyers 3/31/2021, 8:11 am

LenV wrote:.....There is a sticky above where shooters can post good targets........This long spiel was an answer to your question about why more shooters are not posting targets......

Maybe I've got this backwards - I thought I've been posting poor targets, wanting to improve. If my targets are "acceptable", there is not only no need to post more of them, and also no need to feel frustrated about them. The feedback I've gotten is all useful. As for myself, I was thinking if this is the best I can do, why am I wasting time shooting bullseye.

I'm frustrated, because I feel like I'm running into a brick wall, with no way to get past it. My dot tells me that my targets won't get better until I improve, and by watching the muscles/tendons/whatever quiver in my arm while holding the gun up, I probably won't improve until my hand/arm/shoulder/balance improves, or I find a non-existent "fountain of youth". What I can do, is dry-fire religiously, and maybe go back to Keith Sanderson's "holding drills". I'm now 77. I know I used to be stronger, along with a lot of other things, but I don't accept that as a limit. I also know I go to the range so much simply because I enjoy it, always have, always will.

I'll try to ask one more question about this, then drop the subject. Since "score" is how shooters are ranked, what is the minimum score from a 25-yard target that "might" be considered "good" for an ordinary bullseye shooter? 90? 98? Feel free to add qualifications, but I'm just looking for a "number". It can even be a "range". I'm also aware this doesn't matter in most ways, but I'm still curious.

by SingleActionAndrew 3/31/2021, 9:30 am

mikemyers wrote:I'll try to ask one more question about this, then drop the subject. Since "score" is how shooters are ranked, what is the minimum score from a 25-yard target that "might" be considered "good" for an ordinary bullseye shooter? 90? 98? Feel free to add qualifications, but I'm just looking for a "number". It can even be a "range". I'm also aware this doesn't matter in most ways, but I'm still curious.

Unclassified, relatively newbie shooter here so take this for the very little it's worth ...

This is a silly question. You know what scores are necessary for different classifications (84/90/94/97).

I recently read The Inner Game of Tennis after reading multiple recommendations on this forum. Have you read it yet? There's a lot of mindset in your questions that make me duspect you haven't yet.

Part of your question I think is about goals. Where to set your goal, i.e. what score on a target is "good." When setting goals of course they need to be attainable and incremental. Not overly easy so that they don't feel unrewarding but not so high they're unattainable and thus discouraging. I think in that book I read something like goals being a ladder to get into a roof, each incremental goal being a rung on the ladder. If you want to get on a 11ft roof with a 12 ft ladder if the first rung is 10ft off the ground it's not going to help you. Anyway, I think you know what your goal is, which is to make continued improvement in the consistency of your performance to ultimately raise the consistency and values of your scores.

But the focus on what is an acceptable score 1) is highly personal - you already admitted you are competing against yourself and not CR10X (so why are we asking about others' specific numerical score goals) and 2) judgement-focused. Inner Game of Tennis talks a lot about the danger of the conscious mind (self 1) making judgements. Consciously while shooting the target you might want to be just an interested observer in how the shooting goes. Don't get invested in the score, but observe it with curiosity. Don't try to control things, but observe what your body does and how that translates to what's happening in regard to outcomes. Maybe try letting your body (self 2) make corrections as your conscious mind just continues to observe.

One of the tidbits I found interesting from Inner Game too was the idea of playing the part. Maybe have your conscious mind focus on acting out the role of a champion bullseye shooter. Not focused on the score, but rather pretending you are like Briam Zins and pretending you have the confidence in yourself (your unconscious mind and body) to shoot a 10 or an X every time. You're performing for an audience who can only see you shooting but won't actually see the target. Like you're doing an advertisement for how cool, calm and capable a champion bullseye shooter is.

I'm very early in this journey myself so take my interpretation of all this for the grain of salt it's worth:)

by chopper 3/31/2021, 10:02 am

mikemyers wrote:

I'll try to ask one more question about this, then drop the subject. Since "score" is how shooters are ranked, what is the minimum score from a 25-yard target that "might" be considered "good" for an ordinary bullseye shooter? 90? 98? Feel free to add qualifications, but I'm just looking for a "number". It can even be a "range". I'm also aware this doesn't matter in most ways, but I'm still curious.

Mike, that question is tough to answer, if your not ranked "classified". I've seen ordinary shooters that shot their first time shooting expert scores and others 40-50 points. I wouldn't just look at 25 yds as the focal point, there are many factors to consider. If 25 yds. is what you like to shoot then Slow, Timed, and Rapid fire have to be included also.
"Good" it depends on the day or slump you might be in, if your classified, good would be relative to that. Marksman any points close to 85 would be good, if your classed as a Sharpshooter good would be in that range 85-90 points. If your shooting in your class range that would be good, below that would be a tough day, above your range would be an exceptional day. A few tournaments shooting higher than your current classification would put in the next higher class, then you'd start over.
What do you think is "good", it's more how you feel about yourself if not classified. Don't beat yourself up, you might be at the pinnacle of your ability or you could be at the bottom and have more ability to shoot High Master class.
For a member that's not classified why would you care? If you are concerned about "good", shoot some NRA approved 2700 matches this summer, a couple should do it, then you can get classified and know.
You started this post "wanting to improve your revolver shooting" some members helped you by giving their own input to help you. Then it's like you gave up on revolver shooting to shoot your M-41 and go into that. Is the revolver too tough to shoot? You should have stayed with the help in revolver shooting. Remember Target shooting requires discipline and shooting precision needs even more to get better.

by SonOfAGun 3/31/2021, 11:01 am

mikemyers wrote:
...Since "score" is how shooters are ranked, what is the minimum score from a 25-yard target that "might" be considered "good" for an ordinary bullseye shooter? 90? 98? Feel free to add qualifications, but I'm just looking for a "number". It can even be a "range". I'm also aware this doesn't matter in most ways, but I'm still curious.

What's a "good" target for me?

I'm very much a novice here, so take this for what it's worth. In competition I compare my current results to my previous performance. If it's a Slow Fire target, I tend to judge it against my personal best Slow Fire target that I've shot in a match. Timed and Rapid targets I compare to my personal best Timed and Rapid targets. Inevitably I don't always shoot a personal best every time I step up to the line. So, it's also useful to compare a target to my recent average. I like to see myself always outperforming my own average.

If I'm training or practicing, I guess the criteria for what constitutes a "good" result depends on what I'm working on at the moment. That being said, I'm not doing much live fire training or practicing right now. That's mostly due to my self imposed ammo conservation protocol. But I think comparing a target shot in practice to a target shot in competition probably isn't very useful.

I want to think of myself as always improving. I suppose that doesn't mean that each and every target is better than the previous one. And that's a hard thing to come to grips with. But I want a definite upward trend.

I keep a log of my match results in a spreadsheet that runs averages for Slow/Timed/Rapid/NMC/Agg as well as a personal best for each. It's easier to see those trends with the numbers staring me in the face. I also keep my personal best target in each category. For example, if I shoot a 94-5x TF, I throw away the 93-2x TF target. So I have one SF, one TF, and one RF target on hand to prove to myself what I have done, and therefore what I am capable of, each and every time I shoot.

So, what's a "good" target for you? I have no idea.

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