Bullseye-L Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Improving Sustained Fire

+2
PhotoEscape
pgg
6 posters

Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Improving Sustained Fire

Post by pgg Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:15 pm

I've made a lot of progress but have plateaued. I'm shooting iron sights. Just legged out in service pistol. Last two EIC scores were 258 and 275. 270ish is about my practice average for centerfire. 

Slow fire I'm consistently scoring above 90. I usually take a fairly long time with each shot - constant rearward pressure on the trigger, no stop/start, but often 5-10 seconds of hold time. I reset and start over about 1/3 of the time. 

For timed fire, if I practice with the "Splits" timer app, if I concentrate on breaking good shots, and starting to apply pressure to the trigger during recoil and reacquiring the target, I'm scoring mid 90s but usually finishing in 15-25 seconds. Attempts to speed up result in shots pushed low and left. Poor in timed fire, but if I push the cadence to rapid fire very poor, with rounds sometimes showing up in the 5 or 6 ring. (So predictable that in matches I crank the sights up and right to get centered groups and scores around 85-90 in rapid fire.)

Dry fire hasn't seemed to help getting over this hump as the first shot is usually good, but it's the follow-ups that drift low left. (Almost all of my dry fire shots feel good.) 

22lr scores are about 10 points better than centerfire on the NMC. 

I've progressed through the 3 sec drill in the USMC workbook but again the first shot is usually fine. It's recovering and getting another shot off in under 2 seconds and then 3 more good shots that I'm struggling with. The faster squeeze is pushing me low left.

pgg

Posts : 198
Join date : 2015-11-21

Back to top Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Re: Improving Sustained Fire

Post by PhotoEscape Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:20 pm

Does your elbow hyper-extends?  I mean, goes over 180 degrees when your arm is fully stretched?

AP
PhotoEscape
PhotoEscape
Admin

Posts : 1541
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : Northern Illinois, USA

Back to top Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Re: Improving Sustained Fire

Post by pgg Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:47 pm

No, it's about straight. Maybe a couple degrees past 180 at most?

pgg

Posts : 198
Join date : 2015-11-21

Back to top Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Re: Improving Sustained Fire

Post by mspingeld Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:53 am

I don't mean to be argumentative or offensive and certainly not arguing with success but, if a slow fire shot takes close to 10 seconds, doesn't that indicate some start and stop? Does a dry fire shot on a blank wall take that long? If the hammer hooks are .020" that would be moving the trigger at .002" per second. I certainly don't have that kind of control.

p.s. I have a vested interest in this topic as my iron sight work is very similar to yours, same issues. (slightly lower scores Sad )

mspingeld
Admin

Posts : 835
Join date : 2014-04-19
Age : 64
Location : New Jersey

chopper likes this post

Back to top Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Re: Improving Sustained Fire

Post by chopper Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:11 am

I'm just a marksman, and started shooting irons myself, but when I was using a dot my best sustained scores were when I started pulling the trigger on my way to the black. That could be too late or early for some shooters you'll have to experiment for yourself. 
 There was a video of a shooter using irons during rapid fire, I think on a AMU YouTube.
 Stan

chopper

Posts : 820
Join date : 2013-10-29
Age : 72
Location : Western Iowa

Back to top Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Re: Improving Sustained Fire

Post by pgg Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:55 am

mspingeld wrote:I don't mean to be argumentative or offensive and certainly not arguing with success but, if a slow fire shot takes close to 10 seconds, doesn't that indicate some start and stop? Does a dry fire shot on a blank wall take that long? If the hammer hooks are .020" that would be moving the trigger at .002" per second. I certainly don't have that kind of control.

p.s. I have a vested interest in this topic as my iron sight work is very similar to yours, same issues. (slightly lower scores Sad )
In slow fire I typically let the sights settle on the black for a few seconds before I even start the trigger pull. Also as I start to apply pressure there isn't any trigger movement for a couple seconds. Does that make sense? 

If I stop trigger pressure in slow fire I put the gun down and start over. I do that often.

pgg

Posts : 198
Join date : 2015-11-21

Back to top Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Re: Improving Sustained Fire

Post by mspingeld Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:01 am

Makes perfect sense. These words are key for me in timed & rapid: "starting to apply pressure to the trigger during recoil", whether dot or irons.

When I do that, the target is much prettier...........when I do that.

mspingeld
Admin

Posts : 835
Join date : 2014-04-19
Age : 64
Location : New Jersey

Back to top Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Re: Improving Sustained Fire

Post by pgg Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:06 pm

Today. Timed went fine, but rapid fire had the usual problems. Faster cadence, speeding up trigger pull = shots pushed low left.

First 30 rounds of timed fire went fine, averaged 93, had 3 rounds go high because they went off while I was still recovering into the center -

Improving Sustained Fire Cf-tim10

20 more timed fire went fine, averaged about 96, one more high that broke before I settled back into the center -

Improving Sustained Fire Cf-tim11

Then 30 rounds of rapid fire averaged about 82 -

Improving Sustained Fire Cf-rap10

And to finish up and make myself feel a little better, 30 rounds of rimfire timed fire -

Improving Sustained Fire 22-tim10

pgg

Posts : 198
Join date : 2015-11-21

Back to top Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Re: Improving Sustained Fire

Post by chopper Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:20 pm

PGG, you'll get a few high hits once in a while, but it'll get better. Those low lefts will improve on RFs, just concentrate getting on the trigger while moving the sights in the black. That timing will improve and you'll see more 10s and fewer 9s.
 Stan

chopper

Posts : 820
Join date : 2013-10-29
Age : 72
Location : Western Iowa

Back to top Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Re: Improving Sustained Fire

Post by DA/SA Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:24 am

I'd recommend working on grip consistency.

You are most likely tightening your grip when squeezing the trigger as you attempt to shoot faster.

Concentrate on maintaining a constant grip when training.
DA/SA
DA/SA

Posts : 1506
Join date : 2017-10-09
Age : 68
Location : Southeast Florida

Back to top Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Re: Improving Sustained Fire

Post by mspingeld Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:56 am

For me, it's trigger speed. The clock gets in my head and I pull the trigger too fast. When I start the trigger early, it's a controlled pull. Trigger control means you control the trigger, not the devil on your shoulder with the stopwatch.

mspingeld
Admin

Posts : 835
Join date : 2014-04-19
Age : 64
Location : New Jersey

Back to top Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Re: Improving Sustained Fire

Post by pgg Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:04 am

DA/SA wrote:I'd recommend working on grip consistency.

You are most likely tightening your grip when squeezing the trigger as you attempt to shoot faster.

Concentrate on maintaining a constant grip when training.
That could be

Next time I'm at the range I'll make grip the focus for the day.

pgg

Posts : 198
Join date : 2015-11-21

Back to top Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Re: Improving Sustained Fire

Post by UnGe Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:31 am

I do not have good experience with rapid fire, but your target reminds me the exercise we did for slow fire to fix trigger pull problems. Aim well, then yank the trigger. Correct trigger finger position and pull direction until flyers do not fly too far.
I know that common chart refers to low left as tightening grip, but if your grip is balanced (no shifts of sights when tightening), this looks more like pull problem (controlled/slow pull is much more forgiving to small problems)

UnGe

Posts : 83
Join date : 2021-02-22
Location : WA

Back to top Go down

Improving Sustained Fire Empty Re: Improving Sustained Fire

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum