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Grip question

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Post by thessler Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:05 pm

Hi
I have seen videos and read in more than one place how when you bring the gun up the sights or red dot should be aligned to your eye.
Does that really happen for the average shooter or is that a goal?
I have been fooling around with the grip and it's almost never perfectly lined up without an adjustment.  I use a dot. When I pick up the gun the dot is almost always high and right, it doesn't seem to matter how I hold the gun, after I pick it up I need to move my wrist down and left. Not far just a little , the dot is almost always just out of the picture not by much but out there . I have tried and not been successful at correcting this.
So how important is this ? Should I stop shooting and never shoot again untill I have this mastered,  or is it not such a big deal ?
Thanks for any advice ,Tom

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Post by Froneck Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:57 pm

With what hand do you pick the gun up with? Never pick-up with the shooting hand! Stand on the shooting line behind the I assume bench and lift your arm to the level needed to shoot, move it right and left, you will notice a spot where there is no shoulder strain. Form a comfortable Vee with the thumb and index finger and rotate on your right leg (assuming your right handed if not do the reverse) by moving your left so that the center of the target in in the center of the Vee formed in your hand. Pick-up the gun with your non shooting hand and push it into the Vee you just formed, lift to shooting position and look thu the scope if you can't see thru it, grasp the gun again with the other hand and move it until the needed position is acquired. Pointing the gun down range close your eyes and locate that comfortable position mentioned above, open your eyes, if not on target, pivot as described above until dot is on target. Remember how the pistol was placed in the hand for next time, if adjustment is needed again use the other hand, never milk the grip (manipulate the fingers in search of a good position) Locate your head that is comfortable for you, some like it straight up others like the chin on the shoulder. Both are used by different champions. It will not take long before you can do it without need for adjustment, check you stance as mentioned closing your eyes because different ranges might require adjustment. Always push the gun into the Vee with the opposite hand, never hand it to yourself and always alter the gun's position with the non shooting hand if it don't feel right!

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Post by Wobbley Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:43 pm

What people are talking about is aligning your grip of the gun so that when you raise the gun up your gun is aligned with the eye, IN THE STANCE AND POSITION YOU HAVE.  The grip will be different the more “bladed” or “square” to the target your position is.  Hold your hand like it would be if you threw a punch.  That is the natural position of your hand-wrist-arm alignment.  Your position and arm raised (stance) is unique to you.  There will be a gun position (rotated around the axis if the grip) where the sights are aligned with your eye.  It is NOT always with the gun barrel and the forearm aligned.  Identify that rotational position.  Develop a technique where you place the gun in that position in your hand identically.  Don’t let go until you’ve finished your ten shot string.
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Post by thessler Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:35 am

Thanks I will review these suggestions today at the range.
I have been working on this for a while now and I have a very comfortable repeatable stance. When I put the gun into my hand it is a very comfortable repeatable grip. My natural grip holding my wrist and fist where they want to be will put the dot high and right. I can see through the tube fine I just need to adjust the wrist to get the dot in play. I can rotate the gun so the dot is centered,  then it won't be natural and comfortable and it will still be high. I think I'm explaining I right.
I guess I'm trying to figure out if I should force myself into a new grip to try to get the dot perfectly lined up with my eye as I raise the gun. Is that even possible?  The difference between having the dot lined up and the dot out of the scope can mean a 1mm difference in the grip. How important is this ?
Thanks , Tom

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Post by Jack H Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:09 am

First off - What gun are you working on?  Standard 45?  Ruger slant type grip?  Got a thumbrest?  Euro ergo?  Thin slabs, thick slabs?  Arched or flat MSH?  LOP? 
Big hand, little hand?  Trigger finger placement?
IMO there is very little adjustment like "rotate the gun in the hand"?  The gun in the hand must be firm, controlled, comfortable, and easily repeatable.  AND allow a straight back press on the trigger.
Lots of factors.
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Post by thessler Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:55 am

Standard 45. " lots of factors "
I get it, will keep working on it. 
Tom

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Post by Jack H Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:32 am

"almost always high and right"

Try a thicker right grip panel  Maybe even thicker near the front edge.  Tape on shims to try different things.  I used to hot glue leather pieces for semi permanent trials.  A little added or removed from a grip goes a long way

What MSH?  If arched, try flat

Stand taller.  Hold head higher (If comfortable) This should raise arm making the wrist bend down just a little
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Post by Froneck Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:22 am

As Jack said add or remove from the grip to adjust the gun to your hand. Also it seems that if dot is to the right the gun is placed in the hand so as to reach the trigger is turned to the right. Probably indicating you have a short pull length hand/finger. Shorter triggers are available, best is to buy a solid trigger it can easily be shortened. You don't adjust the gun in the hand to place the finger properly on the trigger so that all pressure is directly to the rear and none to the sides. Alter trigger length to place finger in proper location when using the correct grip. Assuming you have short pull length since the dot is on the right thinner grips are available though you might need short bushing for the grip screws. Used 1911 grips are cheap, avoid the fancy versions for now and get plain so you can sand the back side and modify the grips without concern of screwing up the grips you have. Altering the trigger length is a good place to start and easier to do. Where on the finger do you place the trigger?

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Post by thessler Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:32 am

Trigger placed at first crease.
Yesterday I put in a short trigger, in hindsight it's too short so I'll keep at that.
Even with the short trigger it didn't change the dot location. 
Thanks, Tom

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Post by Froneck Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:33 am

With the shorter trigger did you move the gun location in the hand to the left? First crease is not standard location but is used by many champion shooters however is does shorten hand pull length quite a bit. I don't know your hand and I'm not there to see what you are doing. I stand about 45° to the target. When I lift my arm to shooting position there is no strain on my shoulder and my wrist is in the location as if it were relaxed. The Vee formed by my thumb and index finger points straight up my arm, that's the ideal hand position. I then pick-up the gun with the other hand and push it into the Vee them close my fingers around the grip. My trigger length is adjusted to my pull length, dot in center of scope when I lift my arm, I adjust my stance to put dot in center of target moving my left foot.
 Try putting the gun in your hand so dot is in the center left to right, don't worry about trigger pull. After you get the correct grip then determine trigger length. Your wrist should be in the relaxed location, not twisted to the right. No you don't shoot with the wrist relaxed simply lock it in the same location when relaxed neither to the right or left.
 What type main spring housing to you have? Flat or arched?

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Post by thessler Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:40 am

Flat mainspring housing.
Good suggestions,  I'll get to work implementing them.
Thanks  Tom

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