SA Range Officer questions

So I jumped at an opportunity on GB where a shop was selling a SA but didn't advertise it as a RO, just a 1911 with mods for $600.  I called SA and verified the serial as a RO.  It has old Colt medallion grips (already swapped) a Wilson lowered thumb safety, arched mainspring housing (already swapped) and a short, solid trigger without overtravel screw.  I picked it up today and it sure hasn't seen many rounds, like maybe a few hundred.  Not even the normal aw-shit mark behind the trigger from putting the slide stop back in.  Trigger has a great feel with a consistent break at 4# 4-6 ozs.  I did notice something that generates a question, though.

The slide has a different number stamped into the track under the extractor, but the frame's serial number is vibra-penciled into the disconnector track.  Slide-to-frame fit is excellent, so I am nothing but curious about this.  For those of you who have worked a RO or 20, is this something done at SA, or was this done when the trigger/MSH work was done by a gunsmith?

Not sure what the stamped number is, but the ep’d number which matches the frame number is applied at the factory. All RO’s I have worked on have this number on the disco rail. One of the first things I do is smooth this area with a fine stone. Their rough ep mark sure feels gritty as it passes over the disconnector, knocking off the high spots improves it greatly.

My assumption is that they have tons of frames and slides. Each numbered differently. When their smiths mate slide with frame they mark frame's number on a slide for a matched set. Just a guess. All good, you got a great deal.

I can't see from the picture - which hammer does it have?

adminbot1911 wrote:I can't see from the picture - which hammer does it have?

It has the original "Delta" hammer.  I have an EGW lightened hammer to put in, should it have needed it, but I am not messing with the current trigger feel.
Everything except the trigger, thumb safety, grips and MSH appears stock.  I already replaced the well-worn Colt grips with G10s and the MSH with an EGW 20lpi checkered.  Trigger is in question.  I can make it work as-is, but prefer a longer one.  Otherwise, I'll shoot it as-is unless I get light hits, then will replace the Ti firing pin/spring.
New BarSto barrel is in-hand to send to KC when he is back at it.  I'll let him fit a new trigger/hammer/sear, thumb safety and 20lpi checker the front strap when fitting the barrel.

NukeMMC wrote:

adminbot1911 wrote:I can't see from the picture - which hammer does it have?

It has the original "Delta" hammer.  I have an EGW lightened hammer to put in, should it have needed it, but I am not messing with the current trigger feel.
Everything except the trigger, thumb safety, grips and MSH appears stock.  I already replaced the well-worn Colt grips with G10s and the MSH with an EGW 20lpi checkered.  Trigger is in question.  I can make it work as-is, but prefer a longer one.  Otherwise, I'll shoot it as-is unless I get light hits, then will replace the Ti firing pin/spring.
New BarSto barrel is in-hand to send to KC when he is back at it.  I'll let him fit a new trigger/hammer/sear, thumb safety and 20lpi checker the front strap when fitting the barrel.

Almost sounds easier to commission a ground up build.

NukeMMC wrote:

adminbot1911 wrote:I can't see from the picture - which hammer does it have?

It has the original "Delta" hammer.  I have an EGW lightened hammer to put in, should it have needed it, but I am not messing with the current trigger feel.
Everything except the trigger, thumb safety, grips and MSH appears stock.  I already replaced the well-worn Colt grips with G10s and the MSH with an EGW 20lpi checkered.  Trigger is in question.  I can make it work as-is, but prefer a longer one.  Otherwise, I'll shoot it as-is unless I get light hits, then will replace the Ti firing pin/spring.
New BarSto barrel is in-hand to send to KC when he is back at it.  I'll let him fit a new trigger/hammer/sear, thumb safety and 20lpi checker the front strap when fitting the barrel.

Have you considered having forged trigger group parts replace the MIM parts from SA? When I have ordered a ground-up bullseye build, I was open to the recommendations of the pistol smith.

When I get this pistol worked, KC will have free reign.  He knows I am preferential to the EGW lightened hammer I mentioned above, since he already worked the one on my wad gun.  SA's MIM, apparently, has a good reputation, but other MIM will not be in that pistol long.  I have an EGW pin set, and the only other MIM items may be the slide stop and extractor.  Again, when he fits the barrel, I would bet the slide stop gets replaced.  It's up to him.

Ground-up build = $3500 and up.

Unless there is something really out of whack with this gun, this build should be under $1k in labor and I'll have about $400 in parts.  Looks to me to be under 60% the cost of a ground-up build, plus when/if I leg out (10 to go), I won't have an issue carrying this one in a holster instead of a pistol box.

Plus - It looks like "Just another SA RO" ... 

NukeMMC wrote:Ground-up build = $3500 and up.

Unless there is something really out of whack with this gun, this build should be under $1k in labor and I'll have about $400 in parts.  Looks to me to be under 60% the cost of a ground-up build, plus when/if I leg out (10 to go), I won't have an issue carrying this one in a holster instead of a pistol box.

Plus - It looks like "Just another SA RO" ... 

If I am going to pay a smith to do that much work on the gun, I would rather them have complete control of the build. Sure it may cost a bit more but I am fine amortizing that over my expected time of use.

chiz1180 wrote:

If I am going to pay a smith to do that much work on the gun, I would rather them have complete control of the build. Sure it may cost a bit more but I am fine amortizing that over my expected time of use.

Then please go make your own thread on doing just that.

Nuke, I'll bet Kp321 is correct about the last 3 digits on the disconnect ramp, a good way to match slide to frame after having proper fitment.
 I went the same route as your taking only I had Jon Eulette do my barrel fitting, which is very important for a great shooting and long lasting pistol.  
 I'd say KC is good at that also, and triggers are a must, I prefer a short to medium roll, they are both "kings" at those. Price wise I'd say they are both comparable, and well worth it.
Stan

chiz1180 wrote:Almost sounds easier to commission a ground up build.

At the end of the trail that is about what you wind up with.  However starting out it is easier swallow series of incremental investments as you figure out exactly what you want instead of cutting one massive check.

If you paid big money for a custom gun, you'd be changing things here and there eventually too.

chopper wrote:Nuke, I'll bet Kp321 is correct about the last 3 digits on the disconnect ramp, a good way to match slide to frame after having proper fitment.
 I went the same route as your taking only I had Jon Eulette do my barrel fitting, which is very important for a great shooting and long lasting pistol.  
 I'd say KC is good at that also, and triggers are a must, I prefer a short to medium roll, they are both "kings" at those. Price wise I'd say they are both comparable, and well worth it.
Stan

Yeah, the MIL match guns (rifle & pistol) all had last 4 engraved on pretty much every fit component.  On the 1911s, I saw numbers on slide, underside of barrel, sometimes on bushing skirt and magazines.  M14s had numbers on bolts, oprods, gas cylinders, barrel channels in stocks, rear sight bases, trigger housings, hammers and magazines.

chiz1180 wrote:

NukeMMC wrote:

adminbot1911 wrote:I can't see from the picture - which hammer does it have?

It has the original "Delta" hammer.  I have an EGW lightened hammer to put in, should it have needed it, but I am not messing with the current trigger feel.
Everything except the trigger, thumb safety, grips and MSH appears stock.  I already replaced the well-worn Colt grips with G10s and the MSH with an EGW 20lpi checkered.  Trigger is in question.  I can make it work as-is, but prefer a longer one.  Otherwise, I'll shoot it as-is unless I get light hits, then will replace the Ti firing pin/spring.
New BarSto barrel is in-hand to send to KC when he is back at it.  I'll let him fit a new trigger/hammer/sear, thumb safety and 20lpi checker the front strap when fitting the barrel.

Almost sounds easier to commission a ground up build.

The one I bought was giving me light hits when I went to #19 MS to improve the timing. Swapped out the #19 for a #23 should be good and added about 3 ounces to the pull. I cut 2 links off the #16 recoil spring that probably helped the timing better than the MS. 

RO barrels shoot pretty good , all you need is a proper fit bushing and maybe and oversized link.

Out of the box the trigger was not horrible but prepped the frame, I had bought some Xtreme Engineering parts and did a roll trigger now I have a #4.5 trigger that feels like #3. I am very sad they stopped making RO's. I guess the garrison is the next best thing but the Ro's were great and for BE Parkerized frame hold up well to the abuse.

My RO slide is marked exactly as yours.  Last 3 digits of serial number matches the 3 numbers penciled inside the slide.  Shot 10 ring at 50 right out of the box.  Trigger needs a little work but thats OK.
Phil

PMcfall wrote:My RO slide is marked exactly as yours.  Last 3 digits of serial number matches the 3 numbers penciled inside the slide.  Shot 10 ring at 50 right out of the box.  Trigger needs a little work but thats OK.
Phil

My Wad Gun was marked like that, RO Barrel with a NM Fit bushing was a 10 ring Gun. I had a Kart installed and it shoot better but not much.

Only mod to my RO was a straight mainspring housing with a lighter hammer spring and recoil spring to tune it for low powered SWC loads.

rich.tullo wrote:My Wad Gun was marked like that, RO Barrel with a NM Fit bushing was a 10 ring Gun. I had a Kart installed and it shoot better but not much.

Sounds like you need a new gunsmith if your Kart didn’t shoot much better than the stock RO setup. Properly fit Kart should make factory barrel look like a smooth bore musket.
Jon

Jon Eulette wrote:

rich.tullo wrote:My Wad Gun was marked like that, RO Barrel with a NM Fit bushing was a 10 ring Gun. I had a Kart installed and it shoot better but not much.

Sounds like you need a new gunsmith if your Kart didn’t shoot much better than the stock RO setup. Properly fit Kart should make factory barrel look like a smooth bore musket.
Jon

Actually Jon, take this as a compliment, that was as compared to the RO barrel you refitted on my Wad Gun, My guess is the RO Barrel with the fit bushing is shooting about 2 inches as compared to 1.5 inches with the Kart Barrel.

Rich,
I’ve never seen a RO with EGW bushing and EGW 0.200” slide stop hold 2”. 
That’s better than a lot of old Clark builds.
Jon

Shot mine today.  4.1gr of N310 under a Zero 185jhp at 1.215" and .470" crimp.  Results were less than impressive.  Held the black, excluding flyers, at 50yds.  At 25, it held the black.  On a sandbag, it held 9 ring at 50 and almost 10 ing at 25.  Same load shoots 10 ring in my wad gun at 50.

This pistol is definitely getting some professional attention.  Funny thing is ... that's what my wife says about me.

NukeMMC wrote:Shot mine today.  4.1gr of N310 under a Zero 185jhp at 1.215" and .470" crimp.  Results were less than impressive.  Held the black, excluding flyers, at 50yds.  At 25, it held the black.  On a sandbag, it held 9 ring at 50 and almost 10 ing at 25.  Same load shoots 10 ring in my wad gun at 50.

This pistol is definitely getting some professional attention.  Funny thing is ... that's what my wife says about me.

Try 4.5 VN 310.

rich.tullo wrote:

NukeMMC wrote:Shot mine today.  4.1gr of N310 under a Zero 185jhp at 1.215" and .470" crimp.  Results were less than impressive.  Held the black, excluding flyers, at 50yds.  At 25, it held the black.  On a sandbag, it held 9 ring at 50 and almost 10 ing at 25.  Same load shoots 10 ring in my wad gun at 50.

This pistol is definitely getting some professional attention.  Funny thing is ... that's what my wife says about me.

Try 4.5 VN 310.

Shoots well,  but 4.3 was better when I shot on Friday. Both did OK at 50 but 4.3 was better at 25.  Also shot better at 50 from my wad gun.

Try 4.5 VN310