Does anyone use 45 cowboy special?

I currently shoot a 38 python and a Smith & Wesson 625–8 45 ACP in my Precision Pistol matches. I have a model 25-9 in 45 colt that I’d like to try, but I think the cases are too big for light bull’s-eye loads and I’m not getting the accuracy I want despite tight Chambers and an eight and three eights inch barrel. Accuracy is fine with stouter loads 
The 45 cowboy special has the same rim as the 45 colt but it’s about 4/10 of an inch shorter essentially as long as a 45 ACP or 45 auto rim.  The auto rim cartridge has a rim that  is too thick to fit in my gun.
Any rate I wonder if anybody has tried this, and if it worked out for them. I’m not planning on trying the schofield at this time.

Revolver cylinders have a throat on the end of the chamber to support and align bullets to feed concentrically into the forcing cone/barrel. I'm not sure if your 0.400 jump/gap will allow the bullet to flop its way into the cylinder throat. A 38 special case in a 357 magnum cylinder only has a 0,100 jump/gap to the cylinder throat. The cylinder throat is not a forcing cone!
Jon

Jon Eulette wrote:Revolver cylinders have a throat on the end of the chamber to support and align bullets to feed concentrically into the forcing cone/barrel. I'm not sure if your 0.400 jump/gap will allow the bullet to flop its way into the cylinder throat. A 38 special case in a 357 magnum cylinder only has a 0,100 jump/gap to the cylinder throat. The cylinder throat is not a forcing cone!
Jon

That's what I  "aim" to find out.  I don't think most of the people who use it are looking for Bullseye accuracy, so this will be an interesting experiment.  I have plenty of different powder and bullets. It has been suggested that I may have to ream the case neck at that length after cutting down the case, but my .452 rounds drop right in to the case without belling.

Give it a shot.  I’d just load up a “standard” bullseye load and see what happens.  The long jump could be an issue as the bullet will be effectively unsupported until it gets to the cylinder throat.  But it’s worth a shot.

I don't think it will make much difference. I have several loaded down 45 Colt loads that are very accurate in my XVR. They have a huge gap to jump. The cylinder also takes 454 Casul and 460 S&W. I followed cowboy action loads for the 45 Colt. Maybe not as slow as your trying to get.

Len

I use them to make .442 British Bulldog rounds.

You possibly need a 25-2 , 45 acp cylinder to play with.

Jon Eulette wrote:Revolver cylinders have a throat on the end of the chamber to support and align bullets to feed concentrically into the forcing cone/barrel. I'm not sure if your 0.400 jump/gap will allow the bullet to flop its way into the cylinder throat. A 38 special case in a 357 magnum cylinder only has a 0,100 jump/gap to the cylinder throat. The cylinder throat is not a forcing cone!
Jon

Are we talking Cowboy Action or Bullseye.  If the former, I don't think the jump/gap is going to make much of a difference.   I have some Cowboy cases that I never got around to using.

If you think your cases are too big for the amount of powder you use try filling the cases with grits or cream of wheat. That's what I've seen them use in black powder cap and ball pistol loads. Just a suggestion!

Larry2520 wrote:If you think your cases are too big for the amount of powder you use try filling the cases with grits or cream of wheat. That's what I've seen them use in black powder cap and ball pistol loads. Just a suggestion!

I only just heard about this method. It’ll be great with a trail boss load. I could add some dried garlic. trail boss smells weird enough on its own and I could imagine what the guys would think if they smelled garlic to go with it

pittpa wrote:I currently shoot a 38 python and a Smith & Wesson 625–8 45 ACP in my Precision Pistol matches. I have a model 25-9 in 45 colt that I’d like to try, but I think the cases are too big for light bull’s-eye loads and I’m not getting the accuracy I want despite tight Chambers and an eight and three eights inch barrel. Accuracy is fine with stouter loads 
The 45 cowboy special has the same rim as the 45 colt but it’s about 4/10 of an inch shorter essentially as long as a 45 ACP or 45 auto rim.  The auto rim cartridge has a rim that  is too thick to fit in my gun.
Any rate I wonder if anybody has tried this, and if it worked out for them. I’m not planning on trying the schofield at this time.

Before you go too far with this, with an 8 3/8" barrel plus the length of the cylinder, you may be over the 10" maximum length allowed by the NRA rules.
 RULE: 3.6 
3.6 Any .45 Caliber Semi-automatic Pistol or Revolver – The .45 caliber pistol or revolver, as described below shall be used in .45 Caiber Precision Pistol matches. Any .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol or revolver; barrel length, including cylinders, not more than 10 inches


Just sayin

Be careful following BP practices with smokeless powders!

pittpa wrote:I have a model 25-9 in 45 colt that I’d like to try, but I think the cases are too big for light bull’s-eye loads and I’m not getting the accuracy I want despite tight Chambers and an eight and three eights inch barrel.

Suggest you try a wadcutter seated flush with the case mouth.   That will reduce the case capacity and give you better ignition of your light loads.

Don

8eightring wrote:

pittpa wrote:I currently shoot a 38 python and a Smith & Wesson 625–8 45 ACP in my Precision Pistol matches. I have a model 25-9 in 45 colt that I’d like to try, but I think the cases are too big for light bull’s-eye loads and I’m not getting the accuracy I want despite tight Chambers and an eight and three eights inch barrel. Accuracy is fine with stouter loads 
The 45 cowboy special has the same rim as the 45 colt but it’s about 4/10 of an inch shorter essentially as long as a 45 ACP or 45 auto rim.  The auto rim cartridge has a rim that  is too thick to fit in my gun.
Any rate I wonder if anybody has tried this, and if it worked out for them. I’m not planning on trying the schofield at this time.

Before you go too far with this, with an 8 3/8" barrel plus the length of the cylinder, you may be over the 10" maximum length allowed by the NRA rules.
 RULE: 3.6 
3.6 Any .45 Caliber Semi-automatic Pistol or Revolver – The .45 caliber pistol or revolver, as described below shall be used in .45 Caiber Precision Pistol matches. Any .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol or revolver; barrel length, including cylinders, not more than 10 inches


Just sayin

Thanks, it's good.

USSR wrote:

pittpa wrote:I have a model 25-9 in 45 colt that I’d like to try, but I think the cases are too big for light bull’s-eye loads and I’m not getting the accuracy I want despite tight Chambers and an eight and three eights inch barrel.

Suggest you try a wadcutter seated flush with the case mouth.   That will reduce the case capacity and give you better ignition of your light loads.

Don

Thanks!   Having used only DEWC and HBWC in the Python 38, that was the first thing I did after the LSWC were not working.  They were not as accurate as I'd hoped, but punched nice holes.

james r chapman wrote:I use them to make .442 British Bulldog rounds.

You possibly need a 25-2 , 45 acp cylinder to play with.

I’m not familiar with a 45 acp cylinder that fits a 45 Colt frame.

The 25 has the same cylinder diameter and length for both the 45 LC and the 45ACP.  With a bit of fitting you can get a 45ACP cylinder fit to your 25-9.

In reverse only the 25-3 cylinder will fit in a 25-2. You can't shoot full length 45 colt rounds in it but then again you couldn't shoot long loads in the 25-3 either. Winter project a couple of years ago was to modify a -3 cylinder and crane to drop in my 25-2 so I could shoot both rounds. I got it to work and then quit using it. 45acp with moon clips were much faster.

Wobbley wrote:The 25 has the same cylinder diameter and length for both the 45 LC and the 45ACP.  With a bit of fitting you can get a 45ACP cylinder fit to your 25-9.

I thought so, but it turns out that is not so in every case.  If I knew which 45 ACP model had a cylinder that fit my 25-9, I would track one down.  The one I have is pictured here and is quite shorter.

Instead of trying to find a 45acp cylinder that fits your 25-9 instead look for another 45colt cylinder. It's not much work to convert those to work with moon clips and 45acp.

pittpa wrote:

james r chapman wrote:I use them to make .442 British Bulldog rounds.

You possibly need a 25-2 , 45 acp cylinder to play with.

I’m not familiar with a 45 acp cylinder that fits a 45 Colt frame.

When I got it the acp cylinder had been bored out for .45 Colt.
I had an original acp cylinder fitted.
Lens answer is best, open it up for moon clips.

LenV wrote:Instead of trying to find a 45acp cylinder that fits your 25-9 instead look for another 45colt cylinder. It's not much work to convert those to work with moon clips and 45acp.

Thanks, I've considered that.  It costs as much as $200 plus the cost of the cylinder and an unknown return time.  So I'd ratherjust find a 45 ACP cylinder and fit it f I went that route.  
This is an experiment for me.  I would not find or modify a new cylinder until I find out that it works by modifing the 45 Colt brass to 45 ACP  size first.  And if this works, I don't think I would go to that expense anyway, since I have the brass and the ability to convert it. If it fails, I would consider it likley due to the long cylinder jump, I think I would need a 45 ACP cylinder.

Jon Eulette wrote:Revolver cylinders have a throat on the end of the chamber to support and align bullets to feed concentrically into the forcing cone/barrel. I'm not sure if your 0.400 jump/gap will allow the bullet to flop its way into the cylinder throat. A 38 special case in a 357 magnum cylinder only has a 0,100 jump/gap to the cylinder throat. The cylinder throat is not a forcing cone!
Jon

I got to the inside range today. ETA shot at 50'.  The target with the shots outside the black was my first one resting on the perch with both the butt and the muzzle. Then I adjusted the dot.  
The second one has a flyer that was my fifth shot and considering the other groups I think that was me.  For that one The butt was on the perch and the barrel was free.
The one with all the shots in the black was with the butt on a lead shot bag and the barrel free.
I'll load a few more and shoot some offhand at my match tonight, but I'll be competing with my 625-8.


So far, I consider this experiment a fair success.  Soft shooting, 170G magnus LSWC on 4.2 WST.
ETA, hang on, I think my pics are too big, I'll post them later.  I have to get to my match.

Wobbley wrote:Give it a shot.  I’d just load up a “standard” bullseye load and see what happens.  The long jump could be an issue as the bullet will be effectively unsupported until it gets to the cylinder throat.  But it’s worth a shot.

I like your attitude.  My good friend tells me I try things that nobody else does.  He encouraged me to find out if anyone was using Cowboy Short loads for Precision Pistol. The idea being that cowboy shooters don't require much accuracy, and wondering if the loading could survive the jump to the cylinder throat and be accurate enough for precision matches.

james r chapman wrote:

pittpa wrote:

james r chapman wrote:I use them to make .442 British Bulldog rounds.

You possibly need a 25-2 , 45 acp cylinder to play with.

I’m not familiar with a 45 acp cylinder that fits a 45 Colt frame.

When I got it the acp cylinder had been bored out for .45 Colt.
I had an original acp cylinder fitted.
Lens answer is best, open it up for moon clips.

I neglected to post a photo of the gun.