Bullseye-L Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

+10
JHHolliday
PhotoEscape
sbtzc
Foundryratjim
DA/SA
Merick
Wobbley
SingleActionAndrew
SteveT
Orion
14 posters

Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by Orion 9/3/2023, 10:14 pm

I’ve been debating on whether to get a Scatt trainer or an air pistol to make dry firing exercises more dynamic. With the cost of a Scatt, seems like I might as well get a half-decent air pistol. The biggest pro for using a Scatt is continued training with what equipment I’ll use in matches. The biggest pro for using an air pistol to train is the gratification of actually firing a shot.

Looking for some feedback from those that have used either or both and what helped you the most, outside of dry-firing / training at home. Yes, I know, dry firing is the ultimate training aid in itself. Thanks!
Orion
Orion

Posts : 296
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : Houston, TX

https://www.linkedin.com/in/oriondarley/

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by SteveT 9/3/2023, 10:28 pm

Both And, not Either Or if your budget allows.

If your only goal is to reach your highest potential in bullseye and you will use it regularly, then a Scatt will probably provide more score improvement. But airguns are another fun and challenging discipline, so it may provide more fun and social interaction than clicking away in your basement.

Any precision shooting will provide some cross benefits to bullseye. Dry firing with or without a Scatt will provide the most direct benefit. If you are dedicated and observant you can do almost as much just dry firing as you can with a Scatt. The electronic trainer makes it more visible and gives you more time to study the trace after the fact. You can see the same pattern dry firing, but you can't look at it over again except in your memory. If nothing else the Scatt gives you a score which is more satisfying than just dryfiring but also can be a distraction.
SteveT
SteveT

Posts : 1106
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Illinois

https://sites.google.com/site/sdturner/shooting

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by SingleActionAndrew 9/3/2023, 10:50 pm

I shot next to Steve the other day at an air pistol match! I suggest, as a novice with no authority, the air pistol just for another excuse to get out with friends and improve by seeing performances better than your current.
SingleActionAndrew
SingleActionAndrew
Admin

Posts : 670
Join date : 2019-11-19
Location : IL, USA

troystaten likes this post

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by Wobbley 9/3/2023, 11:26 pm

Like any practice device a plan is necessary.  Work on a specific detail of your performance.  SCATT, from my admittedly limited experience, teaches good trigger control and sight alignment, but it isn’t complete.  Air gun lacks recoil.  And 45 has recoil control as a basic element.  So you have to live fire as part of your training.
Wobbley
Wobbley
Admin

Posts : 4776
Join date : 2015-02-12

Merick likes this post

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by Merick 9/4/2023, 12:30 am

Initial price of scatt is a tough pill to swallow (though maybe less than a lot of air pistols now days sheesh),  but after that it is dry fire with quantitative feedback of the whole shot from approach to follow through.  I would have quit or gone broke trying to learn what I have with a scatt if I tried to do it with just live ammo, but some is still required.

Merick

Posts : 452
Join date : 2015-08-13
Location : Kansas

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by DA/SA 9/4/2023, 7:07 am

I was pondering the same decision a while back. 

I went with Scatt Basic, as I didn't see how an air pistol, with a completely different configuration and light trigger was going to do much for shooting my 1911. In addition, I wasn't interested in adding another discipline to my shooting, so I decided that being able to train with the same equipment that I would be shooting was the way to go.

The key to it all, in my case, is that I have 25 yards indoors in which to use it, so I am training on an actual B16 target and not using reduced targets at a short distance. That may or may not make a difference but I believe that it does. 

I admit that I don't use it nearly as often as I should, especially this time of year, because I find that it works best in low ambient light with bright illumination of the target. The only way I can do that is to close up the non air conditioned building, and it's definitely Summer here in FL, so it's not too comfortable. It is quite nice though on rainy evenings, or during the Winter evenings when it is cooler. The first Scatt I tried was a friends that was on his laptop computer, and we were at an outdoor range, so it does work outdoors, but I have not used mine outdoors as I have it on my Desktop PC. 

I got to where I used it as I would with live fire. Lots of blank wall dry fire, and then ten or twenty shots with Scatt for a reality check.

One thing I like with Scatt is the ability to dry fire on a target with the benefit to verify shot calling. It will definitely help in that regard. You will quickly find that what you think you are doing/seeing isn't always what you are actually doing!

And yes, I agree that Scatt doesn't really show you anything that you can't see by just paying attention to the dot or front sight, but it will show you that you were not paying as much attention as you thought you were!

I am glad that this thread came up, because it reminded me that I need to get back to using it more!
DA/SA
DA/SA

Posts : 1480
Join date : 2017-10-09
Age : 68
Location : Southeast Florida

Orion likes this post

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by Foundryratjim 9/4/2023, 7:19 am

I have had good luck practicing with with a Beeman P1 pistol.

Foundryratjim

Posts : 242
Join date : 2018-08-01
Age : 66
Location : michigan

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by sbtzc 9/4/2023, 11:32 am

Mantis X
sbtzc
sbtzc

Posts : 188
Join date : 2013-05-21
Location : W CO

sbtzc and AlEg like this post

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by PhotoEscape 9/4/2023, 11:50 am

Leaving aside MONEY and taking to account that what you read next is strictly my opinion and my personal experience: - combination of SCATT and high quality air pistol with electronic trigger offers quite a comprehensive training routines.  Anything from practicing hold to trigger pull to rapid fire can be accomplished.  Complement the above with attachment for mounting sensor on 45, and you have all you need for practicing higher weight trigger pull too.  I see no value at combining SCATT with actual firing of air pistol.  Other than fan it actually would be a distraction from training of particular elements, IMO.

AP
PhotoEscape
PhotoEscape
Admin

Posts : 1534
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : Northern Illinois, USA

Orion likes this post

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by JHHolliday 9/4/2023, 3:06 pm

Though I've never used SCATT, I have been shooting an air pistol for a few years and IMO there are pro's and con's:

Pros

1. AP is a kind of "live fire", and is more fun than dry fire (at least for me: fun training = more training)
2. Quiet enough to shoot indoors at home, and outdoors if your neighbors are cool or far
3. Ammo cost is near zero
4. Can be accurate at longer distances than standard 10M (see below)

Cons

1. The better ones are expensive
2. You will need air tank setup for a PCP air pistol (though many use CO2 powered or single pump pneumatic very well)
3. Grip angle and trigger are not analogous to most pistols: The highest my AP's trigger will go is about 1#

Here is my FWB P44, during a session yesterday in our "lower 40" (where our BBQ is)

https://postimg.cc/75jg8yj5

Here is a target set up at 20yd, and the FWB is still very accurate at this distance.  The Glowshot targets aren't official but give good feedback and help calling shots

https://postimg.cc/2V9z5jkS
JHHolliday
JHHolliday

Posts : 252
Join date : 2022-12-15

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by saleen322 9/5/2023, 2:14 am

While they are both helpful, I think you get more from the air pistol. We have a LP-10 and it is about as accurate as anything you will shoot. Also air pistol teaches follow through better than anything out there. If you can shoot good scores on an air pistol, you can shoot BE well.

saleen322

Posts : 55
Join date : 2013-09-23
Location : Homosassa, FL

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by Arthur 9/6/2023, 6:48 pm

The top guys, P100 NTI winners, I have known that shoot Highpower all use a trainer. They might shoot a winter league with a .22, but no airguns. It's just one of the tools they consider pretty much standard. 

Good luck. 
Arthur

Arthur

Posts : 155
Join date : 2018-09-15

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by Orion 9/7/2023, 10:30 pm

Do HM shooters use trainers like the Scatt system?
Orion
Orion

Posts : 296
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : Houston, TX

https://www.linkedin.com/in/oriondarley/

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by Wobbley 9/7/2023, 11:57 pm

I know in rifle some do.  Usually they’re working on trigger control.
Wobbley
Wobbley
Admin

Posts : 4776
Join date : 2015-02-12

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by Ed Hall 9/8/2023, 7:41 am

Orion wrote:Do HM shooters use trainers like the Scatt system?
I used mine (Rika) until I learned to actually "see" what was happening as the shot unfolded.  In fact, the trainer helped me learn that and it's what I tied to teach when coaching its use.  After that, it still had some use in aggregate trends, but learning to see the process unfold in real time was my biggest gain.

Ed Hall

Posts : 1084
Join date : 2012-09-10
Location : Adirondack Mountains

http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

Orion and RoyDean like this post

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by hammerli 9/10/2023, 5:35 am

I am an older shooter and I recall my days when great shooter like Don Nygord and Doc Young were winning medals. These guys and even Eric Buljung and The Legendry T D Smith got there without trainers nut with hard work and dedication. Can the rest of us also get there with an Airpistol and Dry firing?

hammerli

Posts : 89
Join date : 2020-05-16

Orion likes this post

Back to top Go down

Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice Empty Re: Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum