Treating members of this forum in a polite way is mandatory.

[Founder]

Friends,
As has been the case for many years, this forum operates differently than othe "social media" venues as I demand that every member interacts with the others as though they are speaking face-to-face at Camp Perry. 

A sure way to get banned from this platform is to behave disrespectfully to your fellow shooters.

Today I sent David Ware, a 2600+ Distinguished Shooter to the banned pile because of completely an unprovoked use of foul language directed at one of my volunteers. Words that were so tasteless, foul, and unacceptable to this community that it warranted me calling him out by his real name even though his handle here was a pseudonym. 

Be polite folks. I don't play around.

[willnewton]

Amen Rob!  You can have freedom of speech, but it doesn’t include freedom from the consequences of what you say.

[james r chapman]

Amen.

[PhotoEscape]

Amen Rob!  You can have freedom of speech, but it doesn’t include freedom from the consequences of what you say.

IMHO, being rude and using foul language has nothing to do with freedom of speech.  While former deserves "consequences" it is not so with freedom of speech.  I'd love to have every  single moron who desecrates our flag facing consequences.  And yet..............

Rob took correct action based on lack of civility by particular user in his post.  I trust, he would not apply such a strict measure should same user had found less toxic way of expressing his thoughts / opinion.

My two cents on the matter.

AP

[ermakevin]

Thank you Sirs, well said

[CrankyThunder]

I like this forum primarily because everybody is so courteous and helpful.  This place has all my buddies here and a bunch of buddies I have not met yet.  

Regards, 
Crankster

[PMcfall]

[ltr]David Ware is a close and respected friend of mine. I have known David for 40 years; the two of us jointly account for nearly 30+ trips to Camp Perry. In addition to being an accomplished shooter (Distinguished Pistol Shot [old school with issued .45 ACP ammo], President's Hundred, 2600+ shooter), David has given back to our sport many times by giving shooters necessary supplies and loading equipment through the years. In fact, he recently established a new national trophy at Camp Perry for junior shooters, in someone else's honor, and gave 6 1911 45’s to be awarded this year and the next 5 years.[/ltr]


[ltr]I cannot argue his banishment since I have not seen his offending post. David can tend to say things that are simultaneously 100% true AND a little abrasive. However, I will argue that the public calling out of David by name was vindictive and not necessary; the public calling out of a respected shooter was probably worse than the initial accusation against David.  Since he is now banned and the post deleted, the situation was contained and no purpose was served by the publicity. Our sport is in trouble. We need to concentrate more on coming together and supporting new shooter recruitment and harnessing the talent and expertise of shooters like David Ware. [/ltr]


[ltr]Phil[/ltr]

[Founder]

He and I have been in contact via email, and instead of acknowledging the wrongdoing, apologizing, and accepting responsibility, he further criticized forum volunteers and questioned my judgment. 

The public nature of the correction is necessary to ensure that nobody, regardless of their pedigree, is allowed to treat others in a disrespectful way.

If it's not something that would be said face-to-face, it won't be said here.

I'm responsible for this place. I will not allow it to be a venue where succesful competitors in our sport are allowed to be disrespectful to those who are "beneath them" in this sport.

Future competitors really don't need nor want to deal with toxic people, either. This is all for the betterment of the sport.

[Wobbley]

I was the subject of Mr. Ware’s attack.  It was NOT a comment on the subject of the thread; it was solely a personal attack out of the blue.  For all the world to see.  I deleted it and gave him a 30 day suspension.  I did take a screenshot and sent it to Jim Chapman and Rob, the founder. Rob elevated his suspension to a permanent ban.  

As I said to Rob, I’m very reluctant to ban people just because they make a ruckus especially the first time.   I just hope they “come to sanity”.  Scammers are gone quickly.  Repeat bad behavior gets you gone fast too. But if it’s just one time, I’ll let you off with a warning.  And I occasionally chime in if the discussion might get heated telling people to keep it civil.  

I post a lot because this forum is enjoyable.  If you think I’m wrong in my post, you can tell me that, but attacks, not so much.

[Chase Turner]

[ltr]David Ware is a close and respected friend of mine. I have known David for 40 years; the two of us jointly account for nearly 30+ trips to Camp Perry. In addition to being an accomplished shooter (Distinguished Pistol Shot [old school with issued .45 ACP ammo], President's Hundred, 2600+ shooter), David has given back to our sport many times by giving shooters necessary supplies and loading equipment through the years. In fact, he recently established a new national trophy at Camp Perry for junior shooters, in someone else's honor, and gave 6 1911 45’s to be awarded this year and the next 5 years.[/ltr]










[ltr]I cannot argue his banishment since I have not seen his offending post. David can tend to say things that are simultaneously 100% true AND a little abrasive. However, I will argue that the public calling out of David by name was vindictive and not necessary; the public calling out of a respected shooter was probably worse than the initial accusation against David.  Since he is now banned and the post deleted, the situation was contained and no purpose was served by the publicity. Our sport is in trouble. We need to concentrate more on coming together and supporting new shooter recruitment and harnessing the talent and expertise of shooters like David Ware. [/ltr]










[ltr]Phil[/ltr]

Phil,

David has been a troll on the BE-L lava list forever, and because I gave him "what for" after his petty, troll behavior to one of my posts, *I* was the one who got booted from the Google List for responding in kind. Such poor behavior of welcoming, or his noble trying to teach, is absolutely undermined by his actual actions- he is a crybaby, who trades on his past accomplishments.

It's OK that he is your friend, and I'm sorry he put you up to standing up for him. But any value he could possible share... hasn't ever been shared with the community at large. And in fact, no one would know his name except for this post, as he has always preferred to hide behind a screenname, and not own up to his comments. 

David Ware's behavior was tolerated and never should have been allowed on the original list, and certainly not here. I don't know the guy other than his crybaby and hostile attitude he has shown others (repeatedly), over apparently 30 years. No one deserves abrasive behavior. It's not an excuse. He's well known as an asshole, and has been for a long time.

That you have a different experience is certainly true and no doubt valuable. But the guy has been a prick everywhere he has touched this sport; why would he just now have learned to be better? He hasn't, and he won't.

-Chase

[PhotoEscape]

IMHO, we reached the point where this thread is not going to bring up anything new of value.  

I want to reiterate though: there are plenty of words in English language for one to being able expressing opinion and disagreements without reserving to rudeness and foul language.

With that, I am locking this thread.

AP

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