So what do you really need? Beginner / Budget Bullseye Gear

So I just wanted to ask what people think is the minimum viable set up to succeed in bullseye. I want to share kind of what I spent this year (from when I started in November to the end of the National Matches) and what I accomplished with that setup and what I believe to be the minimum viable as well.

Guns:
Service Pistol: Swiss SIG P210-6: $2500
22 EIC: Hammerli 208: $900
Revolver: S&W K38: $500

Ammo:
9mm: ~3000 rounds: $850 (124gr Swiss P approx 425/1500)
.22 LR: ~3,000 rounds: $250 (CCI Std, approx 8cpr)
.38 Special: ~900 rounds: $350? (PMC Bronze 132gr, bought a 1000 round case for about $350)
.45 Auto: ~300 rounds: $generously donated by many! (Atlanta Arms JHP)

Misc equipment: 
Stapler $10
Tape $5
Scope w/ stand $40
Gym Bag $20
CLP: $cheap
ECI: free

Total: $5425
Accomplished: P100, Dist. Pistol, 22, and Revolver

Now that's what I ended up spending, but I don't think you would really need to spend that much to accomplish the same things.

If I did it again knowing what I know now, I think the only thing I would change is I would not have purchased the P210-6 to be my service pistol. I would have used a Beretta 92A1 I picked up for about $600 a couple years ago. Recently, in testing with the same ammo, I put a 4 inch group down at 50 yards with only a change of sights. The group scored 93 and that was without any sight adjustment after installing; if the group was centered it could easily have been a 96 or 97. My Second target was an 87 and entirely due to me wanting to get out of the 109 degree heat. With the stock sights, I shot an 85 at 50 yards once figuring out roughly where to hold (top right of the repair center, gotta love fixed sights). In timed fire I averaged a 96 with stock sights and a 98 with the target sights. For rapid, my weakest stage, I averaged an 89 with stock sights and 90 with target sights. And just to establish a baseline on both days, I shot my P210 and shot my average of about 90%.

Stock Sights: 85+96+89: 270/300
Target Sights: 87+93+98+90: 368/400

That is MORE than enough to go distinguished and get P100, especially if I were to practice my rapid fire more and really hammer down the short line. 

So I would say if I could go back in time for Service Pistol I would spend
A good Beretta 92A1: $600
"Good" = handle them at the store and find the one with 0 barrel play at the muzzle or breech, mine has almost none
LPA target sights: $100
3000 rounds of 9mm: $850
Total price: $1550
What I actually spent on Service Pistol (not including general items): $3350
What I spent on .22 EIC: $1150
Revolver: $850

What this doesn't account for is the many thousands of dryfires and all the time that took. So what does a shooter really need to start in bullseye? I think if I had to direct someone, I would have them buy a high quality target 22, like an H208 or S&W 41, and a ton of CCI standard. That can get them started on earning their first distinguished badge as well as participating in the 2700s via .22 only. I'd say they should probably pick up a stapler, some masking tape, and a cheap scope with a stand, but they really don't need a box (other than a pistol case). 

Their next purchase should be a service pistol, and for that I'd recommend a Beretta 92 primarily for the fact that good quality 9mm is so, so much less than good .45. I'm waiting to hear what Jon Shue has to say about the 2 Tisas 1911's he's rebuilding and I'm also doing a similar test with my own Tisas 1911. So far I've replaced the sights with target sights and was able to hit a 1/3 torso at 100 yards with atlanta arms, havent done a serious 50yd/25 yd test yet. I think I would still nudge them toward the Beretta just due to ammo costs.

For revolver, S&W model 14s/K38s are INCREDIBLY cheap for how high quality they are and it's the obvious choice. PMC Bronze has shown itself to be more than adequate for both the long and short line.

As for a really nice/custom built .45 match pistol, I don't think that would be a wise year 1 investment for a new bullseye shooter and chances are they'd be waiting some time to receive it depending on who they order it from.

Well what do you think?

I think.. it's a hobby, so I don't even bother adding up the money spent.

But it's several thousand I'm sure.

Also, I've had my reloading equipment (and 1911) for decades.. which means I bought it when it was much cheaper.

I spent far more and accomplished far less. I keep proving it’s not the gun it’s the person holding it.
I would recommend a good 22 and 45. This would allow shooting all 3 stages of a 2700 match. Xesses were available this year for $1000 to $600. A Springfield Armory Loaded Target is around $1000. It’s available in 9mm if that’s the route you want to take. I don’t like the Beretta but love the 210. Scopes are essential for training, but I scope less than half in matches.
Best advice would be to find a friend that reloaded.
Rush

Beretta's frankly don't work for a lot of people. It is one of those guns that if it works, it works well and if it doesn't, it doesn't work at all. For the most part, revolvers are a novelty in this game. Yes the are incredibly fun, but for the most part the use is limited. As someone who owns and enjoys a Hammerli, it honestly is over rated, and I would argue the same for a Pardini, GSP, or AW93. For the 22 EIC match at Perry this year I shot a Ruger Mk1 that I rarely spend time behind and frankly it had a marginal zero and easily was able to get a solid score. People put far too much emphasis in equipment than they do in process. People demand a gun and ammo combination that will shoot sub 10 ring at 50 but can barley hold the black let alone the repair center at 25. 

For the beginner the best thing would be "a 22 and a 45" with a good mentor.  The first year I shot Perry, I was shooting borrowed guns that belonged to mentors of mine, which were capable of a  performance level significantly higher than I was able to achieve, arguably to this day. Process >>> equipment, a lesson that was given to me free of charge that I ignored for far too long.

I'd start with a ruger mk 4 and shoot that a season. There is no point in investing more until you have been around matches enogh to at least know what you don't know.

Winter after a season of 22 my hypothetical plan for a eic gun is a tisas 1911*, kart diy barrel, and sights comes in easily under $1k.

*Hot take: I'd consider a 9mm for ammo and components availability.  We're between ammo crisises right now and I still have a hard time finding large pistol primers.

I Would agree that a new shooter can start out with a decent 22 and the small miscellaneous stuff and learn the sport quite well.  Human nature being what it is, we like “stuff” so we buy all gear and trinkets before we even start down the road so some people get intimidated by the cost of everything and don’t even want to start.  As one progresses, a 45 will become necessary and then service pistols and revolvers etc. but even those increments can be done intelligently so they don’t break the bank.  Reloading your own ammo would come into play as well so that’s both an investment (expenditure) in the short term but will save you money in the long run.  

John

Merick wrote:*Hot take: I'd consider a 9mm for ammo and components availability.  We're between ammo crisises right now and I still have a hard time finding large pistol primers.

I just built myself a 9mm 1911 partly for that very reason. I would argue that it is a potential good solution as 9mm tends to have better availability, but I don't see any other benefit of 9mm over a 45. I would wager for most people it would be easier to get a good 45 than a good 9mm, as 45 has significantly more tribal knowledge behind it in this game.

As a side note, I have found good enjoyment shooting 9mm from the perspective of it being "different" than 45. That said if I had to shoot a Service Pistol match this weekend (without much time to train), I would shoot one of my 45s as I have more time behind it.

chiz1180 wrote:

Merick wrote:*Hot take: I'd consider a 9mm for ammo and components availability.  We're between ammo crisises right now and I still have a hard time finding large pistol primers.

I just built myself a 9mm 1911 partly for that very reason. I would argue that it is a potential good solution as 9mm tends to have better availability, but I don't see any other benefit of 9mm over a 45. I would wager for most people it would be easier to get a good 45 than a good 9mm, as 45 has significantly more tribal knowledge behind it in this game.

As a side note, I have found good enjoyment shooting 9mm from the perspective of it being "different" than 45. That said if I had to shoot a Service Pistol match this weekend (without much time to train), I would shoot one of my 45s as I have more time behind it.

All things being equal the 45 probably has the edge.  But as you alluded to it, practice time is what really matters.  9mm should (1) get more practice reps per dollar in regular times, and (2) in bad times similar to recent memory it would give a better odds of having ammo at all.  If leg matches were the priority over 2700s, under certain circumstances those two factors could really start to compound.

Jared I think you are asking the wrong question and maybe for the wrong reason.

I think most here will agree you accomplished a great deal in a short time, but little of that has to do with $$ spent - unless you want to factor the value of prior and recent training time, competing obligations, and intrinsic talent.

Based on your videos it appears you have a lot of shooting experience (especially for your age), which most don't because of work hour demands, paying back student loans, raising a family, etc.  This is NOT to take away from your accomplishments, but to some degree free time plays a role - along with talent (steadiness, composure, discipline).

So it may be that the actual cost of guns/ammo for you to do what you did is a "red herring", and the cost of equipment is actually a non-sequitur.

That said I think you and your videos are good for the sport, maybe more so than the efforts of the quiet champions.

Merick wrote:

chiz1180 wrote:
As a side note, I have found good enjoyment shooting 9mm from the perspective of it being "different" than 45. That said if I had to shoot a Service Pistol match this weekend (without much time to train), I would shoot one of my 45s as I have more time behind it.

All things being equal the 45 probably has the edge.  But as you alluded to it, practice time is what really matters.  9mm should (1) get more practice reps per dollar in regular times, and (2) in bad times similar to recent memory it would give a better odds of having ammo at all.  If leg matches were the priority over 2700s, under certain circumstances those two factors could really start to compound.

I have more time behind 45s because I have been shooting them longer as it is what I started with. Of all of the service pistol matches and training I have done for leg matches, less than 10% of it has been done with a 9mm and I have yet too shoot an NMC with my 9mm that tops a 45 score. On top of that the vast majority of the matches that are available to me are 2700s. Outside of Perry, the only one of the leg matches that I was planning on shooting was not cancelled (weather or not enough non-distinguished). People will drive a fair distance for a 2700, few will for a couple 30-40 shot matches. For a significant amount of people leg matches are just side matches. 

In regards to reps per dollar, regardless of caliber, dryfire is free. Some of my best match scores have been shot when I had minimal live fire training.

John Dervis wrote:I Would agree that a new shooter can start out with a decent 22 and the small miscellaneous stuff and learn the sport quite well.  Human nature being what it is, we like “stuff” so we buy all gear and trinkets before we even start down the road so some people get intimidated by the cost of everything and don’t even want to start.  As one progresses, a 45 will become necessary and then service pistols and revolvers etc. but even those increments can be done intelligently so they don’t break the bank.  Reloading your own ammo would come into play as well so that’s both an investment (expenditure) in the short term but will save you money in the long run.  

John

As one who started out shooting .22 only because it was all I could afford at the time, I wouldn't recommend it, if one has the money to get a good .45 ACP pistol.