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Range alibi when neighbors target swings?

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Range alibi when neighbors target swings? Empty Range alibi when neighbors target swings?

Post by jabberwo 9/18/2024, 11:01 pm

Rapid fire string in NMC. Neighbor shoots the hanger of his target. The holder and the target, now held on by just one clip, swings towards mine. It does not touch my target - but I see this rapidly moving paper through my dot scope. I start thinking (always a bad idea in a string) should I take my last shot? Oh yes I better because I don’t know if that’s a range alibi. 

Result is 39-2x with the first 4 shots followed by a rushed 6. Captain of the other team was vehement that I don’t get an alibi. Gave one to his team member who hit his own  target frame with his 5th shot. 

Cheers,
Jab

jabberwo

Posts : 3
Join date : 2012-01-15

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Range alibi when neighbors target swings? Empty Re: Range alibi when neighbors target swings?

Post by rsp 9/19/2024, 1:03 am

The NRA definition of a range alibi is below. I think you could claim #5 -- the appearance of some object in line of fire constituting a hazard. It is completely reasonable to cease firing when you see unexpected large objects moving downrange in your scope.

However, by choosing to fire your last shot after reassessing the situation, sounds to me like you did not consider it "impossible to complete the string under the conditions of the match".

If it was me ROing the match, I would grant the range alibi had you fired 4, stopped and raised hand, but I would not grant it as described since you completed the string.

9.12 Interruption of Fire -
(a) In timed or rapid fire when the firing of a string is inter-
rupted by some occurrence which renders it impossible
for one or more competitors to complete the string under
the conditions of the match, the Chief Range Officer will
proceed as follows. Without being permitted to examine
their targets, competitors in the relay who have been so
prevented from completing their strings will be asked if
they wish to refire or to accept their score as fired. Targets
will then be scored in the usual manner for all competi-
tors except those who have elected to refire. Without being
scored, the targets of such competitors who have elected
to refire will be pasted or new targets substituted and a
complete string will be fired and scored.
Reasons authorizing this procedure are:
(1) Failure to allow full time.
(2) Failure of targets to operate properly or uniformly.
(3) Failure of target to remain in position on frame or carrier.
(4) Damage to target rendering impossible proper aiming or
scoring impossible.
(5) The appearance of some object in line of fire constituting
a hazard.
(6) Some incident involving a Range Officer or competitor on
the firing line.
(7) Unintended moving of the target during fire.


As for the other competitor, the rules address this specific situation. It is clear that all the shots they fired on the target should count. They should NOT get a clean "do over" like a range alibi. As I understand it, it is more like a gun malfunction alibi (rule 9.14 is the usual alibi refire procedure).

In other words, if they downed the target on the first string and called for an alibi, the target would be rehung but NOT repaired, they would shoot string 2 as normal with everybody else, then finally they would shoot an alibi string. And would be accountable for the low 10 scoring shots out of (total shots away).

Now, you can imagine if they had downed the target on their second shot, making it impossible to shoot the next three, they would want to do that alibi string. It's like a gun malfunction with two away. Better to get the low 10 out of 12 shots downrange, than to get credit for only 7 shots fired.

But since it was shot #5 that downed the target, they wouldn't want a refire string: there are already 10 scoreable shots including the miss. Shooting a refire string could only make their score worse.

(7) (e)
If a shot hits the target frame or the target carrier
causing the target to fall, the Range Officer will be
notified. The target will be rehung and if the shot
causing the target to fall strikes outside the scoring
rings of the target, it will be scored as a miss. All
other shots on the target will count as record shots.
For slow fire the competitor will be permitted to
continue to fire any unfired shots. For timed and
rapid fire the competitor will refire the string on the
same target as provided in Rule 9.14.

rsp

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Join date : 2021-05-11

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Range alibi when neighbors target swings? Empty Re: Range alibi when neighbors target swings?

Post by chiz1180 9/19/2024, 9:25 am

First off, I don't know all the details, but to me it seems like this could get to be a borderline petty situation to me it is not worth going down that road. From my outside perspective it seems that this is a "stuff happens, move on" situation. 

That said my best advise is to read and understand the rule book and have a current one with you. That way if something comes up in the future, you can stop check the rule book and continue in accordance with the book rather than what someone says is "correct". Likewise if someone is insistent that something is correct per the rules, they should be able to show you in the book where the topic is described.
chiz1180
chiz1180

Posts : 1507
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Location : Ohio

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Range alibi when neighbors target swings? Empty Re: Range alibi when neighbors target swings?

Post by John Dervis 9/19/2024, 2:06 pm

I would agree with rsp - If you had stopped firing because of the range condition, I think you would have an alibi however because you did in fact fire the 5th shot that demonstrates your acceptance of the conditions as they happened. 

As far as another shooter getting an alibi because he hit his own target frame is ridiculous if that was his final shot.  There was nothing interfering with him firing 5 shots so he shouldn't get a do over.  The only thing I would accept if I was on the other side of that argument would be that he would need to shoot a 5 shot alibi and count the low 10.  That would stick it to him pretty good because that miss is still there and it's not likely his alibi will be 5x. 

John

John Dervis

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Age : 55
Location : Sheridan, Il.

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