50' Scoring Overlay

I've been working on a new overlay design for use in our Winter Indoor League. I wanted something that was easy to read, but had ring-rebuilders for both slow and sustained fire on the same overlay (so you're not searching for the right card on the scoring table). I have two versions prepared right now. The first option has all of the rings unlabeled and as concentric circles, so the overlay can just be slid over the target until you get to the ring size you need:






The second version has the rings labeled and color coded, slow-fire in red at the top, sustained in black at the bottom. I've also added a second scoring gauge in red, because why not:




I would love feedback, what would your dream overlay look like? Add a skid gauge? More or less colors? I will gladly share my files once I settle on a design, and will probably get these printed by a local print shop for our league and can mail them out if there's enough interest.

They look nice, and the two color version is good, but...   

I haven't used an overlay in decades.  In the Greater Boston Pistol League, we use Eagle Eyes to get a finer circle with some magnification for the holes.  If a line is shot away, we use another target underneath to reconstruct the line.  I have an overlay in my scoring tool kit, but I can't remember the last time anyone used it.

One issue is printing precision, both on the targets & the overlays.  The effects are pretty small around the X-ring, but the bigger the ring, the bigger the error can be.  The targets aren't necessarily exact, and depending on humidity changes, they can expand & contract.  Using a second target from the same batch, stored in the same conditions, means you eliminate most of that sort of variation.

I checked the NRA Rules, but I couldn't find any specified tolerances.  They must have them somewhere when they certify target manufacturers.  I know for International targets, the rings have a tolerance specified, and it can get pretty big.  For 25 meter pistol, the 10 ring is +/-0.1mm, the 9 ring is +/- 0.4mm, and the 8 ring is +/- 0.5mm.  It loosens up to +/- 1mm for the 6 & 7 ring, and it's +/- 2 mm from the 5 ring out.  +/- 2mm is a pretty big variation.

I will say that competitors are not allowed to use Eagle Eyes  for CMP (or NRA? Someone check me on this...), only the match director can. So I think overlays have their place. A good practice is to have all competitors use the same overlay, eliminating any discrepancies within that particular league.

Dave

EDIT: To answer the OP, I like the top one better. Seems easier to have an entire half ring to line up when recreating a scoring ring.

gwhite wrote:
I checked the NRA Rules, but I couldn't find any specified tolerances.  They must have them somewhere when they certify target manufacturers.  I know for International targets, the rings have a tolerance specified, and it can get pretty big.  For 25 meter pistol, the 10 ring is +/-0.1mm, the 9 ring is +/- 0.4mm, and the 8 ring is +/- 0.5mm.  It loosens up to +/- 1mm for the 6 & 7 ring, and it's +/- 2 mm from the 5 ring out.  +/- 2mm is a pretty big variation.

I appreciate all the input! I wasn't able to find any tolerance specifications in either NRA or CMP documentation for the B2 and B3 targets either. Also couldn't find a dimension for the thickness of the ring itself, or any guidance on what an appropriate centering ring-size is. I based everything off of my existing Champion's Choice overlays.

As far as printing tolerances, the first test batches will be done on a home inkjet, and I'll see how close much deviance i get. My goal was for 0.05", since even the difference between the B2 7-ring and B3 9-ring is 0.01" (3.07" black vs 3.06" black). If my printer is incapable of consistent results I'll go to a local printshop and have them done on a more durable material.

dcforman wrote:I will say that competitors are not allowed to use Eagle Eyes  for CMP (or NRA? Someone check me on this...), only the match director can. So I think overlays have their place. A good practice is to have all competitors use the same overlay, eliminating any discrepancies within that particular league.

Dave

EDIT: To answer the OP, I like the top one better. Seems easier to have an entire half ring to line up when recreating a scoring ring.

In our league Eagle Eyes are allowed, it's plugs that are reserved for team captains. We usually have 6+ people scoring targets at a time, and there are not that many Eagle Eyes to go around.  I've also noticed that there's quite a bit of difference in the overlays, so was hoping by making enough for my league we could all be using the same thing.

Dcforman wrote:I will say that competitors are not allowed to use Eagle Eyes  for CMP (or NRA? Someone check me on this...), only the match director can. So I think overlays have their place. A good practice is to have all competitors use the same overlay, eliminating any discrepancies within that particular league.

Dave

EDIT: To answer the OP, I like the top one better. Seems easier to have an entire half ring to line up when recreating a scoring ring.

Respectfully disagree. You may use any means that does not alter the bullet entry. No plugs.
Any optical device may be used to assist the scorer.

To OP

Tony Hundal designed and printed up these years ago. They are posted on the forum, in the warehouse, next to the Ark!

james r chapman wrote:To OP

Tony Hundal designed and printed up these years ago. They are posted on the forum, in the warehouse, next to the Ark!

If you're referring to the stickied thread, those are just the rings, to be printed on a full size sheet. I'm trying to make something business-card sized that has both the ring rebuilders AND the scoring gauge on one small piece of plastic. I can fit 9 gauges per piece of transparency, and then run them through my job's  ID laminator to thicken them up and make it impossible to scratch off the ink.

Will you be adding 35 and 45 reference holes as well?

What about the top design with color coded rings for the tighter slow fire rings, and then the three shot holes in red also (since red shows nice when clipping the edge of a tan scoring ring)?

SingleActionAndrew wrote:Will you be adding 35 and 45 reference holes as well?

What about the top design with color coded rings for the tighter slow fire rings, and then the three shot holes in red also (since red shows nice when clipping the edge of a tan scoring ring)?

Something like this? (quick proof of concept, I know things are off center)

On the Eagle Eye I have it says Guaranteed Size: .221".  Rule 14.3 lists the range for scoring gauges between .2225" - .2240".

I would prefer an overlay that is closer to the .2240" than .221"

james r chapman wrote:

Dcforman wrote:I will say that competitors are not allowed to use Eagle Eyes  for CMP (or NRA? Someone check me on this...), only the match director can. So I think overlays have their place. A good practice is to have all competitors use the same overlay, eliminating any discrepancies within that particular league.

Dave

EDIT: To answer the OP, I like the top one better. Seems easier to have an entire half ring to line up when recreating a scoring ring.

Respectfully disagree. You may use any means that does not alter the bullet entry. No plugs.
Any optical device may be used to assist the scorer.

Well, poop. I need to have a conversation with my local elders. I went back through the rules and couldn't find anything. My apologies!

Dave

Toz35m wrote:On the Eagle Eye I have it says Guaranteed Size: .221".  Rule 14.3 lists the range for scoring gauges between .2225" - .2240".

I would prefer an overlay that is closer to the .2240" than .221"

The Eagle Eye is made in Canada, and is designed to ISSF rules.  For our League use, the 0.00075" difference in radius from the NRA spec is ignored.  If it's that close, we give the benefit of a doubt to the shooter.  Even slight variations in how the paper tears or the scorers vision can introduce a bigger error in aligning to the center than that.  If there is ever a question, the team Captains can use a plug.

Does anyone make an overlay similar to a B8 target. Kinda like what Dave Wilson uses to center his groups in the 10 ring. Most of his groups fit in the X ring though.

Bill

Bill, I made some overlays like that for ransom rest testing. I used an ordinary laser printer with transparency film like you'd use for an overhead projector.

I had to mess with the scale settings on my printer to get it to come out at the right size -- easy to check against a real B8.

With 1" grid:

https://svgtargets.com/NRA/B-6.svg?gridX=1&paperWidth=5.75&paperHeight=5.75&black=white&white=black&dime=0

Without grid:

https://svgtargets.com/NRA/B-6.svg?paperWidth=5.75&paperHeight=5.75&black=white&white=black&dime=0

And this is what it looks like in use.

Toz35m wrote:On the Eagle Eye I have it says Guaranteed Size: .221".  Rule 14.3 lists the range for scoring gauges between .2225" - .2240".

I would prefer an overlay that is closer to the .2240" than .221"

Yes, I have them sized so they are the maximum allowable size for the gauge ( 0.2240, 0.314, 0.359, and 0.454). This is the newest iteration after trying to clean up some formatting and also indicate which colored rings are for which target:

messenger wrote:Does anyone make an overlay similar to a B8 target. Kinda like what Dave Wilson uses to center his groups in the 10 ring. Most of his groups fit in the X ring though.

Bill

I believe that was the overlays I mistakenly spoke of.
Check in the sticky section

rsp wrote:

That's exactly what I am looking for.  

Bill