Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
+6
CR10X
DeweyHales
DavidR
C.Perkins
jmdavis
beeser
10 posters
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Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
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Last edited by beeser on 10/24/2014, 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
beeser- Posts : 1153
Join date : 2014-06-19
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
The smaller hole is why you want to have a scoring overlay. Check with Champions Choice, Larry's Guns or your preferred vendor.
http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=ItemDetailOptions&item=SO10
The lower recoil may be due to the bullet not expanding into the grooves in the same way as the LWSC and thus having lower pressures and velocities.
http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=ItemDetailOptions&item=SO10
The lower recoil may be due to the bullet not expanding into the grooves in the same way as the LWSC and thus having lower pressures and velocities.
jmdavis- Posts : 1409
Join date : 2012-03-24
Location : Virginia
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
Beeser;
A jacketed bullet usually takes a bit more powder to propel it at the same speed as a lead bullet because of friction.
I use the same bullets using 4.6gr of Bullseye for the long line.
The holes made by a jacketed bullet are usually visually smaller than a semi wadcutter.
Scoring is the same, use an overlay if not sure, if you dispute then call for a plug.
Clarence
A jacketed bullet usually takes a bit more powder to propel it at the same speed as a lead bullet because of friction.
I use the same bullets using 4.6gr of Bullseye for the long line.
The holes made by a jacketed bullet are usually visually smaller than a semi wadcutter.
Scoring is the same, use an overlay if not sure, if you dispute then call for a plug.
Clarence
C.Perkins- Posts : 742
Join date : 2011-06-13
Age : 61
Location : Surrounded by pines in Wi.
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
Oh; by the way Beeser;
The Arizona state championships is Oct.25 and 26th.
Clarence
The Arizona state championships is Oct.25 and 26th.
Clarence
C.Perkins- Posts : 742
Join date : 2011-06-13
Age : 61
Location : Surrounded by pines in Wi.
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
you need to load those with 4.3 - 4.5 of BE, then you will see what accuracy is, fmj's always take more powder, but it wont increase the recoil very much more than the 3.8 lead load.
DavidR- Admin
- Posts : 3032
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 70
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
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Last edited by beeser on 10/24/2014, 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
beeser- Posts : 1153
Join date : 2014-06-19
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
Load them to 1.200" as well.
DeweyHales- Posts : 641
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : North Carolina
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
yes, 1.200 oal, crimp to .467-.469
DavidR- Admin
- Posts : 3032
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 70
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
Do all of you crimp?
jmdavis- Posts : 1409
Join date : 2012-03-24
Location : Virginia
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
jmdavis wrote:Do all of you crimp?
only bullet I don't crimp is a 9mm, don't ask me why, its just what David sams told me too do when loading match 9mm rounds, if you don't crimp a 45acp you will be lucky to get it to feed, unless your guns chamber is well worn or oversized.
DavidR- Admin
- Posts : 3032
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 70
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
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Last edited by beeser on 10/24/2014, 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
beeser- Posts : 1153
Join date : 2014-06-19
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
What David Sams means is that the mouth of case should not be smaller than the average (nominal) dimensions for a 9 mm round. (0.3785 inch). I asked about this years ago and have a note on the printed load data sheet that was provided by Sams.
If you have expanded the 9mm case greater than 0.3785 to facilitate loading, you will need to taper back to that measurement.
The problem was that many loaders and reloaders were crimping the 9mm way too much, getting bullet jacket deformation and accuracy issues.
Most times crimp is necessary feeding, ignition, and accuracy. Most reloading requires the case mouth be expanded some measureable amount greater than the bullet just to get it seated without any problems.
Cecil
If you have expanded the 9mm case greater than 0.3785 to facilitate loading, you will need to taper back to that measurement.
The problem was that many loaders and reloaders were crimping the 9mm way too much, getting bullet jacket deformation and accuracy issues.
Most times crimp is necessary feeding, ignition, and accuracy. Most reloading requires the case mouth be expanded some measureable amount greater than the bullet just to get it seated without any problems.
Cecil
CR10X- Posts : 1777
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
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Last edited by beeser on 10/24/2014, 2:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
beeser- Posts : 1153
Join date : 2014-06-19
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
I use a .470" crimp for Noslers and everything else. Buddy Chapman set me on this path, when I lived in Texas. Dave Salyer, who with Al Doorman, started the whole Nosler bullet thing for bullseye, told me that they found, in accuracy testing, that the COAL wasn't a critical factor. I've used 1.26" with very good results. Dave also put me on to a load with Alliant Bullseye. He said that it was very comparable in accuracy to Vihtavouri 310, which the Marine Corps pistol team started off using, thanks to Al and Dave. I owe a lot to the generosity of the sharing of the results of hard work of a lot of folks over the years in this sport.jmdavis wrote:Do all of you crimp?
BE Mike- Posts : 2559
Join date : 2011-07-29
Location : Indiana
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
{I wonder why it's not used more than LSWC bullets.}
Not just cost. Lead shoots very well too. I have used lead to clean 50Yd. targets and to shoot over 2600.
And lead is easier on barrels.
Gus
Not just cost. Lead shoots very well too. I have used lead to clean 50Yd. targets and to shoot over 2600.
And lead is easier on barrels.
Gus
3 gun Gus- Posts : 43
Join date : 2014-04-05
Age : 69
Location : Behind you!
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
Try shooting 5 to 10 thousand a year (not to mention the 20 to 30 thousand dry fires) to get to High Master (unsupported civilian) and you'll see why lead is used. Usually you can shoot almost 2 for one in cost or shoot twice as much for the same money. Just make sure they are consistent and accurate. I can say that lead will get you to at least 2649 a few times.......
Cleaning may not be an issue either depending on the bullets and powder used. I can generally get by with only 3 or 4 full breakdown cleanings a year. You do need to keep the extractor and its channel cleaned as well as the breach face. But I don't spend much time at all on the barrel, just some Kroil and a few strokes with the brush (and a little more on the chamber leade. (Oregon Trail bullets, VV310 and Winchester WLP primers).
Cecil
Cleaning may not be an issue either depending on the bullets and powder used. I can generally get by with only 3 or 4 full breakdown cleanings a year. You do need to keep the extractor and its channel cleaned as well as the breach face. But I don't spend much time at all on the barrel, just some Kroil and a few strokes with the brush (and a little more on the chamber leade. (Oregon Trail bullets, VV310 and Winchester WLP primers).
Cecil
CR10X- Posts : 1777
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
CR10X:
I've had good results with Oregon Train 125-gr TCs in .357 Mag but have never tried them for BE loads.
Got back into casting my own instead.
But NOW time is getting scarce again and I might try OTBCs in .38, .45 or even 9mm.
Which of their bullets are proving capable of staying well inside the 10-ring at 50???
Thanks.
To the OP, double the cost is for MANY of us a big reason to shoot a lot of lead, so long as it's accurate enough. I have heard from old-timers that .45 ACP barrels last twice as long with lead as with jacketed.
I've had good results with Oregon Train 125-gr TCs in .357 Mag but have never tried them for BE loads.
Got back into casting my own instead.
But NOW time is getting scarce again and I might try OTBCs in .38, .45 or even 9mm.
Which of their bullets are proving capable of staying well inside the 10-ring at 50???
Thanks.
To the OP, double the cost is for MANY of us a big reason to shoot a lot of lead, so long as it's accurate enough. I have heard from old-timers that .45 ACP barrels last twice as long with lead as with jacketed.
GrumpyOldMan- Posts : 482
Join date : 2013-03-08
Location : High Desert Southwest Red Rock Country
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
OT 200 gr for long line and 180 gr for short. 3.85 gr VV 310, 0.369 - 0.370 crimp and 1.238 OAL with shoulder seater for 200 gr loads. Simply drop in the 180 bullet for the short line with no changes. Interesting the velocity is slightly higher with 200 gr due to case capacity used up more by the 200 gr bullet. Vary the OAL up or down to get the best accuracy for each chamber / barrel. The OT bullets are higher cost than cheap cast, but performance is comparable to jacketed at less cost and OT are very consistent in quality and availability.
CR10X- Posts : 1777
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
Told many moons ago by an All NG pistolsmith that the guilt edge of accuracy of a 45 ACP wadcutter gun is gone in just a very few 1000 rounds of jacketed bullets. This was at a time when the NGMTU had virtually limitless budget and resources to test such things. He went on to say that that number was multiples higher with a cast or swaged bullet. That said there is still that psychological aspect of believing in what you are shooting. If there is any doubt in your mind that your ammo will perform you need to change to what makes your head happy.
Axehandle- Posts : 879
Join date : 2013-09-17
Location : Alabama
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
I can't argue against the 1000 round limit with any data, but we get 2k to 3k out of Service Rifle barrels and bullets going 3x+ in velocity generally before we see a falling off of X ring accuracy at 600 yards.
What would cause the shorter life expectancy of the pistol barrel?
What would cause the shorter life expectancy of the pistol barrel?
jmdavis- Posts : 1409
Join date : 2012-03-24
Location : Virginia
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
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Last edited by beeser on 10/24/2014, 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
beeser- Posts : 1153
Join date : 2014-06-19
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
Well clearly I read that wrong. :-)
jmdavis- Posts : 1409
Join date : 2012-03-24
Location : Virginia
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
Yes cost is the most limiting factor to most, but they are used by many more people than you think, many opt to shoot them at 50 yds and lead at 25. as for barrel wear, I have seen and know of many shooters with in the tens of thousands of rounds of fmj that are not to any big degree less accurate. I will agree lead will were a barrel less, but fmjs will never wear a good quality barrel out in a few thousand rounds if it did no body with a 5k custom gun would shoot them, but most do. All that said, unless your a 2600 and above shooter you could do the same with a good lead load, Terry Labbe of magnus bullets is a high master 2650+ shooter and did it all with lead.
DavidR- Admin
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Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 70
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
Now that statement opened up a bucket of worms didn't it! Didn't mean to imply that the gun would not shoot anymore. The gunsmith was saying that there was a measurable decrease in accuracy in just a few thousand rounds. The accuracy decrease would be something that the NGMTU gunsmiths had quantitatively measured not necessarily something that the shooter could detect in match shooting.. Don't believe it? Doesn't matter. I do.
Axehandle- Posts : 879
Join date : 2013-09-17
Location : Alabama
Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets
As in many things shooting related, quantification is key. "I get great accuracy for 10,000 rounds!" provides little useful information other than the person posting can afford to shoot a lot of ammo.
For a 1.5-inch at 50 yard AMU gun to have its accuracy drop to 2.5 inches by say 3,000 rounds lets us know "by how much". Probably no points dropped by the gun for a shooter who breaks 90+% of all shots inside a 1-inch wobble area long line and short line, but might make a difference for a shooter whose wobble area at 25 yards is 3 full inches for the best shots.
For a 1.5-inch at 50 yard AMU gun to have its accuracy drop to 2.5 inches by say 3,000 rounds lets us know "by how much". Probably no points dropped by the gun for a shooter who breaks 90+% of all shots inside a 1-inch wobble area long line and short line, but might make a difference for a shooter whose wobble area at 25 yards is 3 full inches for the best shots.
GrumpyOldMan- Posts : 482
Join date : 2013-03-08
Location : High Desert Southwest Red Rock Country
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