Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

jell-dog wrote:I'm looking for information on where I can find/obtain the article written by IIRR Jim E Clark Sr "Handloading for Accuracy in the S&W M52" printed in Gun Digest and also The Best of Gun Digest.
I am not sure what year this article was written.
Thank you in advance for any information you can supply.

The 52 is a great BE gun with one glaring flaw.. It is super difficult,  if not impossible,  to get a 38 148 gr. HBWC to shoot well at 50 yards with a 1 X 18 .750 twist barrel. The  very slowest twist for a 38 should be 14.. I prefer 10 or 12.       I am working on a 52 now.. For amusement, I slugged the barrel. .355 exactly.. This is another problem.. Tight bores overly disrupt the projectile.. You can see in the photos how the ends of the bullet on the left from a factory 52 barrel, are in the shape of a "hex" due to distortion. I even throated the factory barrel with a 1-1/2 degree polished leade, but didn't help as you can see.. The bullet on the right is a match grade Shilen in 12 twist..   S&W has a problem with that same concept with the Mod 41.. Again, the 41 is a fantastic BE with the correct bore diameter.

thank you for the information and great photos illustrating the effect of .358" hbwc in .355" barrels!

jell-dog wrote:thank you for the information and great photos illustrating the effect of .358" hbwc in .355" barrels!

Gil Hebard also wrote  on the 52 ammo..
I know from talking with Al Marvel, that Jimmy Clark also advocated twists in the 10 or 12 range for the 1911's he built in 38 spl.
S&W revolvers are also 18.750 X 1 twist and when tuned well can shoot fair groups at 50, but with the advantage of a 6 inch barrel.. The 52 rifled section of the barrel is approx. 3.875 inches.  Much less barrel time to stabilize at approx. 13/64 of a full rotation .

I too would like to read the Clark article as I'm planning to load some .38 wadcutters in the next few weeks.

beeser wrote:I too would like to read the Clark article as I'm planning to load some .38 wadcutters in the next few weeks.

I will post here when/if Gun Digest returns my request for information on where I may obtain this article.

Jerry Keefer wrote:

jell-dog wrote:thank you for the information and great photos illustrating the effect of .358" hbwc in .355" barrels!

Gil Hebard also wrote  on the 52 ammo..
I know from talking with Al Marvel, that Jimmy Clark also advocated twists in the 10 or 12 range for the 1911's he built in 38 spl.
S&W revolvers are also 18.750 X 1 twist and when tuned well can shoot fair groups at 50, but with the advantage of a 6 inch barrel.. The 52 rifled section of the barrel is approx. 3.875 inches.  Much less barrel time to stabilize at approx. 13/64 of a full rotation .

I have Gil Hebard's article and it is very clear on how to hand load for the M52, article states it will not be as accurate as factory ammo, but is close enough until I can gain the experience needed to take advantage of factory ammo.

I would have thought a 17:1 twist barrel would be about ideal—huh.
Just some notes on what worked for me in my three M-52s (YMMV):
1) Remington 148gn HBWCs are without a doubt the most accurate and the least expensive bullets.
2) If possible, do NOT size the cases. If you must size the cases, get a Lee FCD and take out the crimping parts and use it to size the cases.
3) Don't be afraid to over-flare the case and use a 0.358" expander for the Remington 0.360" bullets. Getting the bullets properly straight and already seated about ¼" or more helps to keep the bullet aligned during seating.
4) Very important—use a Redding Profile Crimp Die for slightly roll crimp the case.

Gil Hebard's article on reloading for the S&W model 52 is included in his book, "The Pistol Shooter's Treasury". This is a fair price: http://www.larrysguns.com/Products/Pistol-Shooters-Treasury__PST.aspx

noylj wrote:I would have thought a 17:1 twist barrel would be about ideal—huh.
Just some notes on what worked for me in my three M-52s (YMMV):
1) Remington 148gn HBWCs are without a doubt the most accurate and the least expensive bullets.
2) If possible, do NOT size the cases. If you must size the cases, get a Lee FCD and take out the crimping parts and use it to size the cases.
3) Don't be afraid to over-flare the case and use a 0.358" expander for the Remington 0.360" bullets. Getting the bullets properly straight and already seated about ¼" or more helps to keep the bullet aligned during seating.
4) Very important—use a Redding Profile Crimp Die for slightly roll crimp the case.

Thank you for your loading information!
Only thing I need is redding profile crimp die.

BE Mike wrote:Gil Hebard's article on reloading for the S&W model 52 is included in his book, "The Pistol Shooter's Treasury". This is a fair price: http://www.larrysguns.com/Products/Pistol-Shooters-Treasury__PST.aspx

Great link, I'll get a copy, thanks!

...

Just for grins and giggles, has anybody tried a 148 grain WC sized to .356 in their M-52?

I'm with Noylj and use only the filthy Remington 148 gr. HBWC and found it the best but was going to try sizing some other WC's down to .356 just to see what happens but wonder if it's worth the effort.


Virgil

If I could only remember the name of the company that makes home swaging equipment.  If I could remember I think their website gives info on them making their own moulds to your spec.

Try this: http://www.bulletswage.com

Corbin was one company that made home swaging gear.  Don't know if they are still around.

I looked at Corbins stuff a while back. Many ways to go depending on what you want for an outcome. They appeared to still be going strong

jell-dog wrote:I'm looking for information on where I can find/obtain the article written by IIRR Jim E Clark Sr "Handloading for Accuracy in the S&W M52" printed in Gun Digest and also The Best of Gun Digest.
I am not sure what year this article was written.
Thank you in advance for any information you can supply.

The article I started this post for is actually:Handloading the Smith & Wesson Model 52 by Kent Bellah. I had read a thread where someone suggested that Jim E Clark, Sr wrote an article on Reloading for the Model 52.
I received a PM correcting my mistake in looking for article authored by Jim E Clark, Sr. Kent Bellah's article can be found in the 17th Edition of Gun Digest.
jell-dog

Virgil Kane wrote:Just for grins and giggles, has anybody tried a 148 grain WC sized to .356 in their M-52?

I'm with Noylj and use only the filthy Remington 148 gr. HBWC and found it the best but was going to try sizing some other WC's down to .356 just to see what happens but wonder if it's worth the effort.


Virgil

Why not use the Magnus swaged hbwc's. They're already much closer in bore dia than the Remington..

james r chapman wrote:

Virgil Kane wrote:Just for grins and giggles, has anybody tried a 148 grain WC sized to .356 in their M-52?

I'm with Noylj and use only the filthy Remington 148 gr. HBWC and found it the best but was going to try sizing some other WC's down to .356 just to see what happens but wonder if it's worth the effort.


Virgil

Why not use the Magnus swaged hbwc's. They're already much closer in bore dia than the Remington..

While I love Magnus bullets and use them in my 45 and 38 revolver I have not been able to get as good accuracy with the Magnus 148gr HBWC as I do with the Remington 148gr WC in my M-52. Don't know why?  I was thinking in terms of a regular WC sized to .356 and not a HBWC. I have an old H&G mould (forget the #'s) that was made for the M-52, it's flat on both sides with NO button nose. It's shoots OK sized to .358 but wonder what it would do sized to .356 in the M-52. But you are right, the Remington 148gr HBWC are huge with a very distinct  taper from nose to base.


Virgil

+1 on the Remington for my M52-2, I'd add Precision Delta with match lube to the M-52 "they work great" list but the Remington's are way cheaper.

- Dave

Jerry Keefer wrote:I know from talking with Al Marvel, that Jimmy Clark also advocated twists in the 10 or 12 range for the 1911's he built in 38 spl.

Jerry,
Is the Al Marvel referred to here the gentleman who ran matches for the COPL @ Cols OH PD range for many yrs?

Ron Habegger

...

My loading procedure is designed to NOT swage the bullets down. It seemed to me that the Remingtons, ranging from 0.358" at the nose to 0.360" at the bottom, were the best by such a large amount that the size may be significant and I would expect swaging a bullet down would make it less accurate.
I ran a bunch of tests back in the '70s and found that shooting as-cast bullets were almost always more accurate than sized bullets, so I haven't sized any of my cast bullets for over 35 years.

noylj,
what do you use to expand the .38 spl cases so that they do not swage the HBWC when seating?

Colt711 wrote:

Jerry Keefer wrote:I know from talking with Al Marvel, that Jimmy Clark also advocated twists in the 10 or 12 range for the 1911's he built in 38 spl.

Jerry,
Is the Al Marvel referred to here the gentleman who ran matches for the COPL @ Cols OH PD range for many yrs?

Ron Habegger

I don't really know.. Al lives in Jarrettsville, MD  If the range is near there, probably so..
He makes and sells 1911, HS, parts, and the best 1911 optics rib available..  He has pretty much retired from doing the full time gunsmithing. He is a reknowned BE smith..
Ooops..Didn't catch that OH PD at first, so I really doubt it.