FWB AW-93?

There were some interesting comments about the Feinwerkbau AW-93 in another thread and I would like to learn more about it.  A search here didn't turn up much.  Anyone have any experience with it?

It is considered by many to be THE top choice for .22 among present offerings in our sport.

Beeser you may done much better keeping the Pardini in the long term.   Those generally are good ones too.

Shoot good ones like these for a long time before switching.  It is amazing how much you can improve by practicing and practicing and really getting used to a gun over a period of time.

Likely any frustration with scores or consistency is more function of skills not fine weapons like these.

knightimac wrote:It is considered by many to be THE top choice for .22 among present offerings in our sport.

Beeser you may done much better keeping the Pardini in the long term.   Those generally are good ones too.

Shoot good ones like these for a long time before switching.  It is amazing how much you can improve by practicing and practicing and really getting used to a gun over a period of time.

Likely any frustration with scores or consistency is more function of skills not fine weapons like these.

Yes, I probably should've kept the Pardini and talked about my regrets in selling it in another thread.  But that's done.  I can always buy another one.

I shoot a AW93, it is a great gun, it has also been the 22 that has won perry many times in the hands of Brian Zins. Mine was a little finicky finding ammo it liked because of a very tight chamber. Federal and cci would give some failure to fully chamber but it shoots all eley,sk,lappua, aguila with no problems. You wont find any 22 more reliable or problem free plus it has the most adjustable trigger ive seen.

Here you go beeser! 
http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=CategoryBody&c=FITPFE

I wouldn't bother with ANY handgun that expensive until I was losing 1st place on X-count, and more than once a year at that.

Myself, I'm not losing any outright points to the difference between a 1.5-inch capability and a 1/2-inch capability of the gun/ammo at 50 yards. When I do I will look at the ammo options before I look at the gun. THEN I might just re-barrel or line the barrel to get the test groups tighter.

GrumpyOldMan wrote:I wouldn't bother with ANY handgun that expensive until I was losing 1st place on X-count, and more than once a year at that.

Myself, I'm not losing any outright points to the difference between a 1.5-inch capability and a 1/2-inch capability of the gun/ammo at 50 yards. When I do I will look at the ammo options before I look at the gun. THEN I might just re-barrel or line the barrel to get the test groups tighter.

+1
I was a week away from buying the Pardini bullseye 22/32acp and decided the same.  I need consistency at this point and using the same platform (1911) from 22 to 45 is going to get me to Master more quickly than a 22 Euro gun (which I really want LOL).

- Dave

Here is the other AW93 dealer. Great people to deal with.
http://www.brenzovich.com/

The FWB is a great gun. But then, all the top 22's are great guns (Note 1). It is an old Russian design, but that means reliability and durability. All decent 22's are accurate enough for our game.

Note 1 - The one exception may be the Matchguns but I haven't been following that saga for the last few years. If they fixed the reliability issues then it would be a great gun with the best trigger I've ever felt.

The buffer system on the FWB works great. The gun hardly moves when fired. The flip side is when dry firing there is a significant Clank! sound. It doesn't seem like a fine precision trigger when dry firing but it feels good, is fully adjustable and is rock steady when live firing. It didn't take long to get used to that.

It is very easy to field strip, unless the scope mount prevents removing the slide. Very little dirt gets down into the trigger mechanism and it is accessible by just removing the grip.

The open sights are as good as open sight can be. The depth of the rear notch is adjustable. The width is screw-adjustable and both sides move in and out so the POI doesn't move with width adjustment. The front sight is easily removed / replaced and there are 2 or 3 front sight options. The sight adjustments are sufficient to move from deep-sub-6 to center of mass and even higher if needed.

The grip angle is more angled than a 1911 or Hammerli 208 but less extreme than most of the other Euro-22's. I tried the CMM 1911 grip mount and IMO it didn't work. I love every other CMM product I have, but the FWB grip mount felt light, cheap and didn't feel like a 1911 (to me). I think the grip is such that it just can't accommodate a 1911 adapter.

Both of my guns will shoot anything from light SK or Subsonic rounds to faster Federal & CCI. 

Here are the negatives I've identified in several years and several cases of ammo I've shot through mine.

The trigger is fully adjustable except I can't get a really crisp trigger on either of my early models without getting doubles. There is a minimum safe sear engagement which means a minimum 2nd stage movement. It's small and I like a little roll in my trigger so that isn't a problem for me, but if you like a super crisp breaking-glass trigger it might not work for you.

The magazines and parts are expensive, like most Euro-22's.

The biggest disadvantage for BE is that there is not a good scope mount option. 

The Brenzovich scope mount is high, far back and requires removing the rear sight so switching between open and dots is not practical. It also pretty much requires an (expensive) Aimpoint Micro. But it is secure and doesn't require any permanent modifications.

The Black Mountain Engineering scope mount also requires removing the sights since it bridges between the front and rear sight. It works well and can accommodate more scopes in more locations. It is a bit weird when dry firing because the long arch vibrates vertically (about X-ring height) when the the hammer drops. I got used to it and even looked for it after a very short while.

Roddy Toyota came up with a nice scope mount idea. The sights remain in place and the scope can be removed so it's easy to switch between dot and open sights, but it requires machining metal of the gun in areas that are thin. The gunsmith needs to know what he's doing; if they go to far the repair cost will be as much as a new gun. With Roddy's cooperation I had a local gunsmith in NE IL do the modifications. Click here for pictures. Weaver rail is wider than the slide so the gun can't be disassembled without removing the rail. If you use a strip with rimfire scope grooves then the slide can be removed.

Sorry, the photo album is now public.

https://plus.google.com/photos/104529749772737461176/albums/6090893841598980417?banner=pwa

the mount from http://www.brenzovich.com/ is a good mount, I use one and so do several friends, zins does too. I use it with a 1'' ultra dot and it is very accurate imo its the best mount available at the moment, im not a fan of Toyotas because of the machining to the gun required.

Great write up on the AW-93.  Mine is a later model and allows a little more crisp trigger but the trigger setup does have adjustment limitations.

The AW-93 is expensive and available thru either Breznovich or Champions Choice.  A cheaper scope alternative to the Aimpoint Micro is either the Sig Sauer STS-081 or the Burris FastFire III.  The main advantage to the Breznovich mount is that it is probably the most convenient of all available and accommodates the 3 scopes I mentioned.

I think 3 important issues have some bearing on buying a gun:

1.  5 minutes after you pay for it, it doesn't matter a bit how much you paid for it.

2.  Greater cost usually means greater quality.  Driving a BMW, Mercedes, or Audi isn't going to make you a better driver.  Driving one is going to make driving much, much more enjoyable.  The  BMW commercials are true.  The same is true with shooting an AW-93.  You may not improve your shooting very much but you are certainly going to enjoy shooting the pistol and the sport a great deal more.

3.  Bullseye or international pistol shooting is a relatively cheap sport.  Golf clubs can probably be had at a great price but the cost to belong to a club to use those clubs and to enjoy the sport is incredible.  Ask serious trap or skeet shooters what they paid for their Krieghoffs, Perazzis, or Berettas.  Beretta prices go as high as a quarter of a million dollars.  You could buy a Pardini, AW-93, GSP Expert, MG-2, MG-4, Benelli MP-90S, and a whole lot of good ammo for what a lot of the commonly used trap and/or skeet shotguns cost.  People travel to Europe to have those shotguns fitted so the price tag isn't where the costs end.  Kind of like buying a boat that can't be parked in the driveway or backyard.

It is all in the eye of the beholder and really no one else's business, or really matter, what you shoot or how much you pay to do so.

To be honest, I liked my hammerli 208S as much, I shot better scores 872 vs 867 so far, but that was pre shoulder injury times so im very happy with the scores im shooting now, drawback to the 208S was it is a long discontinued gun and some parts are very hard to get. I do believe the AW93 is built better and stronger and it has a more adjustable trigger so it would still be my choice over all others if I was looking for a 22 today.

I have an AW-93 and LOVE it!  The only thing I would like to see is a YouTube video on adjusting the trigger.  There are multiple screws and you can adjust from a rolling trigger to a glass rod.  I have never had a trigger as nice.

It's easy to bugger the trigger. Just take your time, read the instructions and you can develop a nice trigger without a video. You have to unscrew one of the screws, usually covered by the trigger, 3+ times before you make any adjustments. I did mine last weekend and now have a nice smooth 2 stage trigger with a nice roll. 

Joel

Yeah, yeah. You'll really like it better once you try it.

Some dude in high school said that about heroin, too. I'll just keep on slummin' with the Model 41 and the Hi Standard.

When the addiction gets to me obsessing over X count instead of those shots in the 9, I might be ready to go that way. I do believe that they really are that nice, but it's like the difference between a nice BMW and a Tesla--not worth ALL the extra coin for whatcha get.

But I really am glad we have that option and some of us are enjoying them too. The vicarious pleasures of your descriptions of these fine instruments is quite real. I'll just enjoy yours from afar.

I'm pretty sure that Steve Reiter won his 5 National Championships shooting his Chow High Standard! I'm a believer in fundamentals and good trigger! The gun is just the means.
Jon

Its all in what you like, the truth about 22s is most any good built 22 will shot 10 ring at 50 yards with a number of ammos, so its really not about the accuracy its about what you like or can afford. I have owned them all with the exception of a walther and a pardini and the AW93 to me is the best 22 target pistol available. Its like cars, they will all take you from point A to point B, but there are thousands of options to choose from and everybody buys the one they like best.

DavidR wrote:the mount from http://www.brenzovich.com/ is a good mount, I use one and so do several friends, zins does too. I use it with a 1'' ultra dot and it is very accurate imo its the best mount available at the moment, im not a fan of Toyotas because of the machining to the gun required.

I went to their site and couldn't find the mount.  Do you have any pictures?

- Dave

The reason I put such emphasis on accuracy, and as many of the very top shooters do, is a 2700 is a long match.. A marathon as once stated..The human is going to tire..
It's a precision accuracy game.. At 50 yards, 1/3 of,  and the most difficult part of the match, the tighter the gun shoots, the more shooter error is mitigated..Every shooter has error, or all the top HMs would be cleaning the 2700..2014 saw the top three separated by X count. Knowing where their guns are built, I am willing to bet their .22s all shot sub X ring. A three inch + (10 ring) gun is never going to score as well as a sub X ring gun.. I don't care who is shooting it.

Jerry I should have added most any good quality target grade 22 with good ammo will shoot x ring at 50 yards, I said 10 ring to include very low end models too.

dronning wrote:

DavidR wrote:the mount from http://www.brenzovich.com/ is a good mount, I use one and so do several friends, zins does too. I use it with a 1'' ultra dot and it is very accurate imo its the best mount available at the moment, im not a fan of Toyotas because of the machining to the gun required.

I went to their site and couldn't find the mount.  Do you have any pictures?

- Dave

Just call George about pricing here is a pic with a aimpoint mounted to the mount, it can also be used with a ultra dot. I use a 1'' and one ring, works great.