Pardini -- Helpful things to know

The Pardini SP Bullseye Edition is a magnificent pistol. There are a couple things, however it would be nice to have documented.
1) If you have XL hands, the Pardini grip options might not work for you.  You CAN however get the Rink XL grips at the time of purchase.  By doing so, I only paid for an "upgrade" rather than buying the Rink grip at full price.  Obviously, I don't have a normal grip that would allow people with regular size hands to shoot the pistol.
2) You should buy "moly grease". The moly-grease is a simple monthly maintenance task which is mentioned in the manual.
3) You should buy an extra dry-fire plug.  Dry-fire practice with many .22 guns is a pain.  (i.e. S&W M41)  It's a pleasure with the Pardini and you don't want to be without the little plug if you lose one.  They are under $10.
4) The "rail" on the frame is a European style dovetail groove.  DON'T assume your rings will work.  Pardini USA offers rings that have been milled to make them work.  They are fine for .22LR.  If you are handy and careful, you might be able to your stock Ultradot rings for .22LR. However, if you ever add the .32 ACP conversion, a number of folks have not been able to get the Pardini rings to hold.  
5) The Bullseye version is different from the SP New Mechanical.  The .32 conversions work on the SPBE and the .22 conversions work on the .32 HP models.

I bought the .32 ACP conversion and I'm embarrassed to say how much my Center Fire scores improved.  Basically, my CF scores are similar to my .22LR scores.  A couple things you should know:
1) Rings that were working fine with the .22LR may very well not work when you start shooting .32.  I wasted a lot of time and ammo and money on rings before getting a solution.  I ended up buying an expensive set of (aluminum) rings, paid a gunsmith to modify them and tightened them to 50in/lbs on the rail.  It works but another local Pardini shooter found a better solution.  He bought Warne rings for the CZ550.  This rifle has a 19mm dovetail rail.  Since the rear ring has a lug that fits the CZ550 but won''t fit the Pardini, he bought two sets and only used the front rings.  He tightened to a reasonable 20in/lbs.  That's a lot better solution for less money.  (Thanks Eric!)
2) The "wings" on the slide for the .32 are larger than those on the .22LR.  If you mount a red-dot in the traditional way, the slide will probably be hitting the bottom of the front ring.  With an Ultradot, the solution is to add the extension tube to the front of the scope and mount both rings to that longer front tube.  This has the additional advantage of moving the scope closer to your hand.
3) Switching from .22LR to .32 and back is quite simple.  A single 4mm hex bolt holds the assembly in place.  When you make the switch, be sure to get that bolt a little tighter than "snug".  If it's not tight, you won't hold zero.

To mount the "Sledge" Weaver Rail to the GT45, you have remove the iron sights.  The instructions are not in the manual nor included with the "Sledge".  Here they are:

1) Use the small hex wrench to loosen the set screw in the front sight.  If you turn it until it protrudes from the top of the sight by 1mm, it'll be disengaged and you don't risk losing it if it falls out.
2) The front sight slides forward out of the frame.  It'll probably be tight so you can gently tap it with something non-metallic to get it out.
3) To remove the rear sight, you have to remove a pin.  With the appropriate size punch, push out the pin from the left side of the slide towards the right.  (Pin comes out the right side.)
4) There is a screw head visible for vertical sight adjustment.  You remove that screw by turning it beyond adjustment range until it is free.  There is a spring under the rear sight so the rear sight will pop up.  Don't lose the spring!  Iron sights are now removed.
5) To install the sledge, insert the small pin that comes with the sledge so the odd head slides into the grove that held the front sight.
6) The the bottom rear of the "sledge" rail has a shape that matches the recess where the rear sight was mounted.  Fit the sledge into it.
7) Adjust the front pin in the groove to align the pin with the front hole in the sledge.  Insert the short screw through the sledge into the pin and finger tighten.
Insert the long screw through the hole in the rear of the sledge and run it in.
9) Tighten both screws.

1. Love the gun; absolute joy to shoot and it raised my score by about 30 points. They say you can't buy points; well...BS. But what you are really buying is a top of line shooting instrument that runs like a watch, fits your hand like a glove, has a trigger like a kiss, and shoots spectacularly well.

2. I had to modify the grip to fit my hand, but carefully re-stippled it and you can't tell anything has been done to the grip. If your grip isn't right, make it so.

3. I had the same problem as others with the scope rings. I contacted Pardini and they kindly provided another set free of charge. I made sure the bottom portion of the rings that fit the groove were uniform and sharp (to grip better), and installed two rings on the front of a Matchdot II and one on the rear as usual. I used blue lock tite and set the rear ring as far back as possible to help me detect any movement of rings.  

4. I zeroed my gun with the 22 and have to raise the sitght 10 clicks at 50 yards and 8 clicks at 25 yards for the 32 ACP. My 32 ACP load is 2.30 grains of Titegroup with Federal brass, Federal match primers, 60gr Hornady XTP, OAL 0.925, crimp 0.332. This load will shoot about 1.5" at 50 yards. It shoots the factory Hornady 60gr XTP load very well and the PMC 60 gr JHP almost as well (~$18.00/50)

5. I set the trigger to 2.5 lbs by adjusting screws per instructions in manual (see attachment courtesy Doug White).

This gun literally makes me smile every time I pick it up. I'll never own a BMW, fly a P51, but I do shoot a Pardini. I heartily recommend them. Dipnet

Dipnet wrote:1. Love the gun; absolute joy to shoot and it raised my score by about 30 points. They say you can't buy points; well...BS.

Yep, you certainly can..

Timely thread having just purchased another Pardini SP and now thinking of getting the .32 conversion.  So .32 ACP is the way to go instead of the .32 S&W?  Thanks for the advice on mounting the Ultradot.  I purchased the Pardini rings for my Matchdot II and will purchase another ring if installing the .32 conversion.  I'm still struggling with the fit on my Pardini grips.  They're the correct size according to Vladimir but my thumb position is not correct.  I'm still contemplating getting the more upright Horton grips.  Maybe that will solve both the thumb position and uncomfortable wrist position.  Nicely made gun and appreciate the elegance in simplicity.

I had my 4th live fire session with the SP tonight. In  four trips to the range I have set 2 new personal bests (rapid and slow fire). The Pardini grips that  came Monday worked great. I already believed that they would from dry fire, but tonight confirmed it.

I am having some cci sv issues (primarily due to length) but sk, eley and rows feed with no problems.

beeser wrote:Timely thread having just purchased another Pardini SP and now thinking of getting the .32 conversion.  So .32 ACP is the way to go instead of the .32 S&W?  Thanks for the advice on mounting the Ultradot.  I purchased the Pardini rings for my Matchdot II and will purchase another ring if installing the .32 conversion.  I'm still struggling with the fit on my Pardini grips.  They're the correct size according to Vladimir but my thumb position is not correct.  I'm still contemplating getting the more upright Horton grips.  Maybe that will solve both the thumb position and uncomfortable wrist position.  Nicely made gun and appreciate the elegance in simplicity.

I hope the third ring works for you.  It did not work for the local shooter who gets credit for finding the Warne ring solution.  Pardini sent me a third ring but I eventually ended up stripping the threads trying to get it to hold.  I bought a torque driver and can tell you that the threads fail on the rings between 25in/lbs and 30in/lbs. YMMV

If you do mount the rings such that the front most ring overlaps the most rearward travel of the "wings", I recommend you use a red Sharpie to put color on the bottom of the ring.  That way you will either see the red on the wings or missing red on the rings if there is contact.  You want to catch that before there is metal/metal wear.

I could never get my scope to stop moving on the 32 acp absolutely no problem with the 22. I drilled and added a mount to both barrels and use two scopes. No problems now and I never have to worry about change in zero since the scope is mounted to the separate barrels.

The Pardini is a great gun very accurate at 50 yards with both the 22 and 32 acp. I have yet shot with someone that has a 32 S&W long that works at 50 yards with the stock barrel. Go for the 32 acp and really enjoy the gun. It is very adjustable so you can get it to fit you.

Yes, I think Larry's Guns has a barrel mounted rail solution.  If you only shoot bullseye, it is a simple solution. Not having to change the sight settings is an advantage!

For me, the new CMP rules with the .22 rimfire distinguished badge meant that I want to take full advantage of the elegant modularity of the system.  Starting with a SPBE, XL Rink grip and .32 ACP conversion I was set for bullseye.  To shoot .22 EIC matches, I will need iron sights.  I bought an HP frame -- without rear sight and without a grip. I put the scope on that frame.  I shoot bullseye with that frame.  To shoot .22 with iron sights, I move the grip and the .22 conversion to the original SPBE frame.  I had adjusted the SPBE trigger to 2.5lbs to be legal for CF.  I have elected to leave it and have adjusted the triggers to be as close to identical as I can.  The HP frame wasn't cheap but a lot less than buying a dedicated gun!

To be clear, my point is not to advocate one solution over another.  My purpose is to help folks seeking a solution to know that there are options and allow them to efficiently get to one that works.  Personally, I have five rings that are trash, I shot at least 4 boxes of expensive ammo, I spent $40 to have a gunsmith precisely mill the $130 Vortex rings, and made multiple trips to the range to get the .32 ACP scope stable.  I would have preferred to spend that time on improving my skills!

Further, I am not unhappy with Pardin USA.  Their rings are inexpensive Weaver style rings that have been modified to work in the 19mm dovetail groove.  They work perfectly for .22LR.  They even sent me an extra ring without charge.

I to am a very satisfied owner of the SPBE. I have yet to have any problems with it. I went with the Rink grip, being the upright model. I believe it is 5 degrees upright, and I love it. I have the Matchdot II with the rings from Pardini, and so far they work fine. Tried to put my Aimpoint Micro on it, but it simply wouldn't hold.

I suppose the lesson is to never post a solution until it is thoroughly tested. I previously mentioned using three of Pardini's rings (two on the front) for a MatchDot II scope, anchored with blue LocTite. After about six matches I noticed the rings have moved again! Arrrrggghhh!

Thankfully, I rememberd the Warne Ring solution and yes, I had to buy two sets as well. But, the steel Warne Rings perfectly fit the 19mm dovetail and are rock solid. I asked Warne if they would sell two pairs of rings without the anchoring tab for the CZ 550, but I never heard back from them. However, I later found out that Talley also makes rings for the CZ 550 as well and maybe they will be willing to sell a special order.

Anyone with the maching tools should be able to mill off the recoil anchor tab shown in the image below. I tried cutting the tab off on the first set with a Dremmel cut wheel and my work wasn't so neat...Oh well, Dipnet

Dipnet wrote:I suppose the lesson is to never post a solution until it is thoroughly tested. I previously mentioned using three of Pardini's rings (two on the front) for a MatchDot II scope, anchored with blue LocTite. After about six matches I noticed the rings have moved again! Arrrrggghhh!

Thankfully, I rememberd the Warne Ring solution and yes, I had to buy two sets as well. But, the steel Warne Rings perfectly fit the 19mm dovetail and are rock solid. I asked Warne if they would sell two pairs of rings without the anchoring tab for the CZ 550, but I never heard back from them. However, I later found out that Talley also makes rings for the CZ 550 as well and maybe they will be willing to sell a special order.

Anyone with the maching tools should be able to mill off the recoil anchor tab shown in the image below. I tried cutting the tab off on the first set with a Dremmel cut wheel and my work wasn't so neat...Oh well, Dipnet

Is this with .22lr or just the .32 ACP?

Beeser,
The only movement issue I've ever heard of (or experienced) with the Pardini SP Bullseye is with the 32 ACP; the rings they supply do not appear strong enough to hold during repeated 32 ACP recoil. However, Emil Milev told me that he has never experienced this problem. However, I think Emil shoots factory ammo. I chronographed Hornady XTPs and they ran in the mid to upper 800s if I am recalling the data correctly.

I've wondered if the recoil damping system may be generating a counter (forward) recoil impulse that causes the rings to move foreward on the frame? I have always set rear ring as far back as it will go in the dovetail, but the movment I've experienced with the scope rings is forward. You would think that the rearward impulse of recoil would cause the rings to simply push scope more to the rear. It seems to me that there has to be some kind of rebounding force that causes the rings to move forward on the frame's dovetail. I'm no physicist and claim no understanding of recoil dynamics. But, if we pretend the pistol is not held by a jointed human appendage, it seems the forces of recoil would be in axis with the barrel.

I look forward to other's comments. Dipnet

PS: I'm trying again to attach image file I mentioned.

I've always pushed the rings forward so the bolt that clamps the ring goes up against the front of the rail groove.  It's like pounding an axehead on a handle by hammering on the butt end of the handle.  

- Dave

Dipnet wrote:Beeser,
The only movement issue I've ever heard of (or experienced) with the Pardini SP Bullseye is with the 32 ACP; the rings they supply do not appear strong enough to hold during repeated 32 ACP recoil. However, Emil Milev told me that he has never experienced this problem. However, I think Emil shoots factory ammo. I chronographed Hornady XTPs and they ran in the mid to upper 800s if I am recalling the data correctly.

I've wondered if the recoil damping system may be generating a counter (forward) recoil impulse that causes the rings to move foreward on the frame? I have always set rear ring as far back as it will go in the dovetail, but the movment I've experienced with the scope rings is forward. You would think that the rearward impulse of recoil would cause the rings to simply push scope more to the rear. It seems to me that there has to be some kind of rebounding force that causes the rings to move forward on the frame's dovetail. I'm no physicist and claim no understanding of recoil dynamics. But, if we pretend the pistol is not held by a jointed human appendage, it seems the forces of recoil would be in axis with the barrel.

I look forward to other's comments. Dipnet

PS: I'm trying again to attach image file I mentioned.

Thanks for the quick response Dipnet!  I think what's going on is not unlike when pulling a table cloth away with dishes on top.  The trick is to pull the table cloth quickly enough so the dishes are undisturbed.  It's an inertia and static friction thing.  In our situation the the gun represents the table cloth and the scope is what's on top.  The scope wants to move with the gun but there isn't enough friction in the mounts to hold it in place.  That's my take on it FWIW.  I'm still waiting for PardiniUSA to get their new stock of .32 ACP conversions in before I get mine.  Hopefully that will be next week.

Edit:  Dave beat me to the punch.  Sounds like he has the solution but it will move some of the weight forward.

Ouch!!  After my last post I looked more closely at my Pardini/Matchdot II and noticed the rings have moved a good half inch forward using just CCI SV .22lrs.  I'm almost certain this just happened with the last 100 rounds.

Perhaps a sheet of Bounce to get rid of any static clings and perhaps static friction to boot.  

Or, perhaps a cheater bar on your wrench/T handle for more torque to better cinch down those rascally screws/nuts of the slide mounts.

Or, perhaps better yet, ensure that the area of the mount that interfaces with the area on the pistol is such that the mount fits well enough to properly tighten and secure the slide mount.

My HP New .32 WC has moved nary so much as a single mouse's nasal hair's width after many hundreds of rounds using both an UltraDot 6 and an UltraDot MatchDotII on the pistol. Both of which are of considerable weight for red dots.

The scope mount screws/bolts are no different than any other screw/bolt on a pistol.  Scope mount screws/bolts need to be tighten SECURELY BUT PROPERLY to do what they were intended to do, and that is to secure the scope.

All,
I've neglected to mention that when I bought my pistol in Tampa almost a year ago, I was told that if I mounted my scope rings all the way to the rear of the pistol, I could remove and re-install them and the scope would approximately retain the same zero. This seems to be true in that when I've removed the previous set of rings supplied by Pardini, the zero was approximately the same when I remounted the scope.

I've been tempted to buy some quick-detach rings by Warne so that I could use the pistol for Bullseye and remove the scope for EIC 22 or Standard Pistol matches in international formats. Also, I copied these data from the Glock forum and converted them to English units; I've been meaning to share them with everyone. Cheers, Dipnet

22 Long Rifle	Benelli MP 90 S		FWB AW 93 Light		Morini CM Aluminum		Pardini SP		Walther GSP
	Group, in.	Vel. f/s	Group, in.	Vel. f/s	Group, in.	Vel. f/s	Group, in.	Vel. f/s	Group, in.	Vel. f/s
RWS R50	1.02	915.4	0.83	990.8	1.26	954.7	0.79	905.5	0.98	872.7
RWS Target Pistol	1.14	928.5	0.75	990.8	1.18	951.4	0.87	921.9	1.34	885.8
RWS Pistol Match	1.46	941.6	0.71	1013.8	1.57	958.0	0.67	925.2	1.65	912.1
RWS C 25	1.02	889.1	0.79	967.8	1.46	905.5	1.02	882.5	2.05	856.3
RWS SSP 250	1.42	856.3	0.91	918.6	0.94	866.1	1.06	856.3	1.77	823.5
RWS Club 22	1.34	918.6	0.87	990.8	1.34	938.3	0.94	895.7	1.38	862.9
Eley Pistol Standard	0.94	935.0	0.83	984.3	0.71	928.5	0.91	895.7	1.46	882.5
Eley Pistol Xtra	1.10	905.5	0.79	990.8	1.22	944.9	1.02	912.1	1.02	892.4
Eley Pistol Match	1.02	977.7	0.79	948.2	1.38	882.5	0.87	876.0	1.02	869.4
Eley Match Semi-auto	0.87	944.9	1.10	1030.2	0.98	990.8	0.63	967.8	0.83	951.4
Eley Tenex Semi-auto	1.10	935.0	1.02	997.4	1.26	951.4	0.83	935.0	1.18	918.6
Lapua Midas M	1.10	925.2	0.71	981.0	1.02	921.9	0.83	889.1	1.26	892.4
Lapua Pistol King	1.26	974.4	0.94	961.3	0.75	915.4	0.87	895.7	1.06	869.4
Lapua OSP 25	1.30	853.0	0.87	1013.8	1.57	948.2	0.71	928.5	1.34	951.4
SK Pistol Match	0.94	866.1	1.02	1040.0	1.22	971.1	0.75	964.6	1.10	918.6
SK Pistol Match Special	1.22	876.0	0.67	1023.6	0.98	977.7	0.75	954.7	1.38	892.4
Fkiocchi SM Rapid Fire 280	1.22	1013.8	1.26	938.3	1.34	872.7	1.18	869.4	2.24	876.0
Fkiocchi SM Rapid Fire 280	0.98	866.1	1.14	931.8	1.30	879.3	0.83	869.4	1.42	921.9
Fiocchi Maxac Rapid Fire	1.26	868.4	1.06	925.2	1.38	862.9	0.83	853.0	1.85	938.3
Fiocchi SM Rapid Fire 320	0.91	1013.8	1.38	1053.1	1.26	1000.7	0.75	971.1	1.06	938.3
Mean	1.13	920.2	0.92	984.6	1.21	931.1	0.85	908.5	1.37	896.3

I just got off the phone with Warne.  They do sell the front CZ550 rings in pairs, you have to order it from Warne.  It is not a stock item and they do not distribute or list it on there website.

The 30mm fixed rings are: 14BFM
The 1" fixed rings are: 1BFM

The 30mm was $57...

Thanks Dipnet and tab812!  Very helpful info.

No wonder Pardini seems to dominate international competitions.

Pardini customer service is great. I order parts monday morning, they ship monday, I have them wednesday and I am shooting the pistol that night for a match. They are really good.

The design of the Warne rings looks like they would loosen the grip on the scope when removed from the gun. Am I wrong?

I would recommend these.  Get part number 49030 or 49040.  then take a file to the bottom of fixed side of the rings so that you get a sharp edge that has one flat side and one angled up.  I have a older version of these but they work great. and you can take them off and put them on without loosing your zero since they stay attached to the dot.  It looks like they are longer than the Warne rings so they would have more surface area contact to the pistol.  I have not tried these with a .32 so I do not know if they would hold. 

http://www.weaveroptics.com/rings_bases/rings/detachable_top_mount/

Not to throw a curve at those liking the 32 in CF and seeing their scores get better, it usually does but you will soon notice the .45 scores getting lower. That is the big reason why the top shooters shoot only the .45 and why the .22 conversion for the 1911 is so popular.