Load development procedure and approach?

I would like to work on developing a load or maybe better put, a finished cartridge using the Penn 9mm, 115 gr. SWC bullet.  I have never attempted anything like this before.  As I see it the variables involved are powder type and load, bullet seating depth and crimp.  According to the latest reloading tips for 9mm on the Penn website the seating depth is often overlooked and can have a significant impact on performance, especially for 9mm cartridges.  First of all, I have the following powders to use.  Which one is best or the best to start the process?

Bullseye
Titegroup
Winchester AutoComp
Winchester WST
HP-38
PB
VihtaVuori N310
VihtaVuori N320
Hi-Skor 700X
Power Pistol
Unique

I'll be using Starline brass and Winchester primers.  So, how do I get started and how do I go about bringing together all of the remaining variables?  Do I really need a chronograph if all I'm interested in is the best possible groups?  Any help on this would be appreciated.

I know WSF is a popular powder with the 115 jacketed bullets..

I don't think WST is used much if at all..

james r chapman wrote:I know WSF is a popular powder with the 115 jacketed bullets..

I don't think WST is used much if at all..

The Penn 115 gr. bullet is cast lead, not jacketed. 

http://www.pennbullets.com/9mm/9mm-caliber.html

Yes, I'm well aware that Penn bullets are indeed lead.

just pointing out that WSF appears to be much more in use than WST.

But, it's your arm.

james r chapman wrote:Yes, I'm well aware that Penn bullets are indeed lead.

just pointing out that WSF appears to be much more in use than WST.

But, it's your arm.

???

your gun. you can try whatever you want..

RobBob

Boolit Mold Join DateAug 2011Posts2

9MM Cast Bullets

Hey guys, new to the forum. I've been loading 115 and 125 gr. 9mm cast bullets for about 20 years now with pretty good luck with most of my pistols. The bullets are sized to .356" I use 4.5 grs. of Unique with both bullet weights. I recently bought a Glock 19 9mm pistol and bought a new Lone Wolf barrel so I could shoot lead bullets and both of the loads above are tumbling. I bought the gun and the new barrel so I could shoot lead bullets as much as I want and I'm really bummed with the bullets tumbling. I believe the Lone Wolf barrel has a 1 in 16" twist. From some of the manuals that I've read I think I can safely use a little more powder with these bullets and maybe they will stablize with a little more velocity. What do you guys think?
Thanks.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121737-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mm

WST seems to be seating depth sensitive in 9mm.  For your purposes, I'd start with Viht 320, Power Pistol and Unique of those you have listed.  Then load for accuracy, velocity and cleanliness.

james r chapman wrote:http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121737-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mm

Good info.  Thanks.  I already went through this process before purchasing the bullets from Penn.  Fortunately you can get them in a variety of sizes.  I already played around with some loads using Unique and Bullseye but wanted to take a step back and take a more methodical approach.  Working up a load, taken literally, seems straight forward but after reading about the effects of bullet seating depth I don't know how to approach that variable.  Do you start with some published minimum OAL and work out to the maximum?  Is this done at each one of the incremental loads?

It looks like my answer regarding the cartridge overall length, at least in part, can be found in Bill Boggs update to reloading for 9mm on the Penn website.

http://www.pennbullets.com/ReloadingTips/ReloadingTips.htm

in order of accuracy trying to settle into 1100fps.
Hornady HAP or XTP JHP bullet 1.090" OAL, WSP, no crimp just remove any flare you might have put in for seating. Redding Titanium Carbide reloading dies #89172 (complete set)
Dillion 1050 reloading press

VV330 (4.7gr, went up to 5.0gr with no improved accuracy) - VV330 is unubtainem, I've been trying to score some more for over a year <1" @50yds
WSF (5.4gr) & VV320 (4.8gr), both slightly over an inch but <1.25" @50yds
VV340 (??gr didn't write it down) slightly over 1.25" @50yds

Not tested: Power Pistol(??gr), Unique(5.0gr), Bullseye (3.2gr)

Penn 115gr LSWC
I'm starting load development next week 1.074" OAL (starting point).
WSF will be my go to powder starting load will be 4.8gr (due to deeper seating depth of the Penn bullet), and go up to the 5.4gr I'm using on the XTP.

All the research I did nobody was using WST in a 9MM.

- Dave
disclaimer start all your testing LOWER than what I have listed, these are working for me but may not be the load for your gun.

ps barrel is a KKM 1/32 twist and the XTP/HAP JHP is THE bullet to use, I'm not sure it will even shoot lead but I'm going to try.

I'm trying to go in the opposite direction as dronning in that I hope to push the bullet slower using the Range Officer 1:16 twist barrel.  My goal is to achieve the same (or better) accuracy with the 9mm RO as with the .45 RO.  Quoting from Bill Boggs in his write-up on the Penn website ...

"First a brief lesson on 9mm loads. The 9mm and 40 S&W caliber cartridges are higher speed bullets than most handguns and the way they get their speed is much like how a magnum load works; a slow burning powder that creates an ever increasing pressure on a bullet as it travels down the barrel. An ideal powder for this is Alliant Power Pistol but Alliant Unique does a super job as well with a little less powder. I load on a progressive and the Power Pistol loads filled the case so high that the indexing of the shell plate would jostle some powder out of the case; Unique fits better."

Using the slower powder for greater velocity concept above it seems logical that a faster burning powder, i.e. popular Bullseye for .45 ACP, would be more appropriate to push the bullet slower.  WSF is apparently one of the slower burning powders and as others have mentioned, seems to work fine at higher velocities.  So it seems to me that Bullseye, Red Dot, Hi-Skor or even VihtaVuori N310 might be good choices.  But besides a powder choice the larger question is what approach should I take in the process of developing the loads?

Beeser 1,100fps is slow for a 115gr JHP 9mm bullet, normal speed is 1,300fps.

For my 115gr Penns they will be shot at 25yds only and I am will be trying to get under 1,000fps.
If you are trying to get 50yd accuracy I don't think the 115gr bullet will stabilize in the <900fps range even with your faster twist. You may have to go to a heavier bullet.

My Load development Process - always be checking for signs of over pressure.
Everything I do is entered in a loading log book. Everything from where I got the initial info to final results, including weather.

I research OAL & crimp starting points I make sure the OAL suggested works in my barrel and adjust.
With powder (or components) of choice (usually one that someone else has found successful) I start on the low side and load 10 rounds in 0.2gr increments up to the high side of the load data, that I got either from a book or info I gleaned on the net. I mark the base of the rounds with different colors and number of lines so each load and spent case can be identified (this goes in the log book). I take the 50-100 loaded rounds to the range and I ransom rest the rounds looking for decent group size. I do all my ransom rest work shooting on a large sheet of parchment paper with a 3" shoot 'n see pasted in the middle because some of your loads might be dropping a foot or more. Separate the cases as they are fired and look for pressure signs, or signs of gas blow by.

*note, before I ransom rest a new load I will first test a known load in the gun to make sure the rest is set up correctly.

Once I find a load(s) that group well I will tweak it up and down a 0.1 and then chrono the final load. Then I'd play with OAL and test again. With some loads like the .45 I'd play with crimp.

- Dave

All my load development is done on a Dillon 550B and I weigh all charges on a RCBS Chargemaster scale. I continue to load with the 550 for a while until I am comfortable all is good then production moves to the 1050. I then ransom rest the 1050 loads, just to verify.

this is from my account @ loaddata.com

let's try this...loaddata from lyman

james r chapman wrote:http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_printable.cfm?metallicid=5480&MW=115&PM=&PT=

this is from my account @ loaddata.com

Need to have an account for the charge weights.  Looks like a good resource.  Any feedback on this subscription, especially when only used for a few calibers?

see if the new link works..

james r chapman wrote:see if the new link works..

Sure does, with charges and all.  Thanks!!!

Start with 3-4 powders that make sense for 9mm.  Some on your list are not traditionally ideal for 9mm.  If you have the time you can try them all.  Who knows you may find a good load that was overlooked.  When I am looking for a load I only load 5 of each and test those.  The reason is if a 5 shot group is 6" at 50yds then shooting 5 more is just a waste of time and components.  Start at some known loads that will get you in the velocity range that are known to provide good groups.  Then go up and down in load by 0.2gr.  I would keep the crimp the same for now.  Change one factor at a time.  After you get close then try 10 shot groups and go for 0.1gr increments.  Then using the same charge play with crimp.

You have to take notes and keep track of what you did.  This way you can look for patterns of what works and what does not work.

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