Aim point Micro

If you go to Face Book Bullseye, you will find a very recent post by Brian Zins basically stating that," the Aimpoint Micro is the best optic presently available for bullseye.." I rest my case..

Got two h-2 and will put a h-1 on my SAMs frame mount.  Never tried the UD went straight for the aimpoint

I shoot the Micro H-1 on my pistols. I just finished building a new pistol for a client and mounted a UD Match scope. The negative magnification made 25 yds feel like I was practically shooting 50. I believe the negative magnification to be a huge disadvantage. I cannot recommend the Aimpoint high enough. One of the best changes I've ever made. I know they are pricey, but in a sport that your trying to always be better than the last match they are a necessary evil ;l0
I would also look into the Aimpoint 9000. Little cheaper and bigger field of view.
Jon
P.S. I'm saving to buy two more.....yikes

Dang! Those Aimpoint's are hundreds of dollars! Irons are cheap!  The price of an Ultra dot looks more appealing. Although I've never used either brand.

Tim:H11 wrote:Dang! Those Aimpoint's are hundreds of dollars! Irons are cheap!  The price of an Ultra dot looks more appealing. Although I've never used either brand.

IMHO as long as your eyes are good stick with the irons!

- Dave

They are top quality red dots BUT just remember that the current Civilian National Champion used 1" UltraDot's with the stock rings this year.

Tim:H11 wrote:Dang! Those Aimpoint's are hundreds of dollars! Irons are cheap!  The price of an Ultra dot looks more appealing. Although I've never used either brand.

NEVER had a battery die with my iron sights.

sixftunda wrote:They are top quality red dots BUT just remember that the current Civilian National Champion used 1" UltraDot's with the stock rings this year.

I broke 2650 and shot 890 45 agg with Tasco Propoints back in the day       

Maybe if I had Ultradots I would've shot a 2680?

I have both a 4 MOA Aimpoint and a Ultradot Match Dot 2.  My personal preference is the UD.  With either scope, the dot looks like a comet to my eyes.  But when I put an eyepal on my shooting glasses, the UD red dot becomes a perfect circle while the Aimpoint stays a comet.  Also, I use one dot size for 50 yd and another for 25.  The UD Matchdot 2 has four dot sizes to choose from.  And I have a Pardini SPBE that I use for .22 and .32, which means four different elevation adjustments (.22 at 50, .22 at 25, .32 at 50 and .32 at 25).  Changing elevation on the UD Matchdot 2 is easier for me than on the Aimpoint.  As best as I can tell, my UD does not have a parallax issue.

Good point. My only gripe about Aimpoint is the too fine adjustments. 
Jon

sixftunda wrote:They are top quality red dots BUT just remember that the current Civilian National Champion used 1" UltraDot's with the stock rings this year.

Often, things are not as they appear..

STEVE SAMELAK wrote:

Tim:H11 wrote:Dang! Those Aimpoint's are hundreds of dollars! Irons are cheap!  The price of an Ultra dot looks more appealing. Although I've never used either brand.

NEVER had a battery die with my iron sights.

 AND YOU NEVER WIPED OFF THE SIGHT BLACK ON YOUR DOT !

Ultradot has hit a good Quality / Price ratio, but they are cheaper because they are not as good. I have 2 Aimpoints and several Ultra-Dots. No question Aimpoint is the best option and should last a very long time. 

AP adjustments are linear and straight line. Some UD's have points in the travel where clicks are not consistent and most have some windage drift when adjusting elevation and vice-versa. AP 'clicks' are solid and easy to feel. Some UD's have kind of mushy clicks. I've had AP's for several years and they are still on the same battery (I always turn them off after use). UD's that are used regularly run down the battery in a year or so. I've only shot an AP once in wet conditions (just a drizzle / light sprinkle) with no problems. Every time I've shot an UD in the rain it has become fogged. I didn't like it, but when all you had to do was send them to Larry with $5 it was not that big a deal. I've not had warranty work done recently, but it sounds like repair is more difficult and expensive than it used to be.

My first dot ever was the blue AP Comp.  Then I found a silver Comp with a bigger dot.  7 or 8 min I think.  Still have them.  The only negative I have with them is the window is way too big.  Actually that "first dot" is wrong.  First dot was an AP flat foot that Springfield gave a trade in allowance toward the blue Comp.  I never even tried to get serious with the flat foot.

Today I prefer to use the UD 1" 4 dots mostly on 8min setting.

Here's a brass Marvel rib with integral micro dot mount I've been preparing for CNC fabrication.  Goal was to get more weight on the gun and get the dot as close to the boreline as possible.  I took the measurements from a Primary Arms micro dot but think the Aimpoint micro uses the same base. You can rotate the model, zoom in/out, etc as desired.  Can also download if you like...it was made with the free version of Fusion 360.

http://a360.co/2aT6DOF

If anyone has any data/measurements on the Aimpoint base I would be very grateful!

the UD HD-Micro,is in the same league of Aimpoint micro??? the aimpoint,have resolution?

SW-52 wrote:the UD HD-Micro,is in the same league of Aimpoint micro??? the aimpoint,have resolution?

Not even close, most that tried them did not say good things, As to being a close clone copy to the aimpoint look at the  primary arms micro  it uses the same base bolt pattern and style, also fred totts extention tubes fit it as well. This does not mean it has as good of quality or optics but for the price they do work pretty good. If you want aimpoint quality and accuracy buy a aimpoint.

SW-52 wrote:the UD HD-Micro,is in the same league of Aimpoint micro??? the aimpoint,have resolution?

I have both the answer is no they are not the same league.  The AP is superior both in optics and dot consistency but way more expensive.  The UD Micro only comes in a 2MOA (which is what I use).  The AP is available in either 2 or 4MOA.  The UD comes with longer tubes than the AP, but you can get extension tubes for the AP.  The UD has a up and down button for brightness and on/off (hard to use), the AP has a dial.  If you are putting it on a 45 you should consider upgrading the AP base.  I've never had the UD Micro on a 45 (mine was on a 22) so I don't know how it would stand up.  The UD batteries need to be replaced annually, the AP's batteries last 50,000 hours.

So an AP Micro with shades and upgraded base will run you around $700-$750, a UD Micro about $220, yes you could buy 3 UD Micros for the price of the AP.  But like they say if you can afford it buy once cry once.

- Dave

Thinking back to my best scores I know that my shooting hardware included Aimpoints.  Can't argue facts.   If we look at  what we were paying for a well built wadcutter gun in the 80s and the price of the Aimpoint at the same point in time the increase in price doesn't look so bad.     Today if I was shooting Red Dots I'd have Aimpoints on my guns. It is just money.  We can get more.

Please help me understand the logic here.  If we should buy an Aimpoint because it's the best, shouldn't that apply to guns and ammo also?  I hear that Cabot guns are the best 1911s, but the cheapest is 6,000.  And at this year's Camp Perry, I was talking to one of the members of the Cabot Team and the gun he was using retails for over 12,000.  And when we shoot .22, instead of using a conversion unit, shouldn't we be using something like a Pardini SPBE and use Eley Tenex?  About two years ago we had a league member reach Master and for .45, he uses a Les Bauer, uses a UD cheaper than my Matchdot 2 and for .22 he shoots CCI Standard Velocity. 
 
Over the years, I have heard some false statements about UD, like they are all made in China (they are made in Japan), if you put in a new battery at the beginning of a match the battery will be dead before the match ends (the batteries in my Matchdot 2 have lasted two years plus and during season, I shoot 4 matches a month plus dry firing plus live fire practice), and the dot in a UD is not a true dot (Because of my astigmatism, neither the dot in the UD or the Aimpoint look like a dot to me, but when I put an Eyepal on my shooting glasses, the UD dot becomes a perfect circle.  The Aimpoint dot is still somewhat flared).
 
I am not trying to start an argument, but I am really struggling with why for the scope it must be the best, but not for everything else.

I don't think anyone is implying to use a great scope and a mediocre pistol
I've personally had an UD die in the middle of a match and it cost me a pistol I would've won. Steve Reiter, 5 time champ at Perry lost his 6th title at Perry when his UD broke during the rapid fire match! I've witnessed other UD deaths on the line. I sent one in for repairs and it broke again within 100 shots. It wasn't an old scope either. So as of yet my Aimpoint Micro hasn't let me down. I will never use an UD at a big match! I have them on my other guns but would swap them out for the Aimpoint if I was hoing to use that pistol at a big match. As far as .22's go I don't believe you need a Pardini.....I have one and shhot it about the same as my Hammerli, HS and Marvel. I do believe Ten-X will get you more points if you do your part. I think a shooter can make Master with any gun! Yep I believe that. I've broke 880 with cheapest welded up pistol on the line. But I do believe a better pistol makes it easier. I've seen some decent Baer's, but very few. Cabot's are pure BS! Theu had many problems with them shooting decent groups. They are not as drop in fit as they would like. So as we know it's the combination of pistol and optics and build that make a good BE pistol. Being a good shooter helps too!
Jon

Since less than $6k will get an EXCELLENT custom gun or even 2, built by someone who knows Bullseye guns, I don't think that Cabot is the way you might want to go for a competition pistol. On the other hand the ones that I have handled were beautiful. 

But I buy working guns, because I WILL work them. My Pardini and Benelli, have grip putty and some sanding marks on the grips, ring marks on the rails, and more than a few scratches. But that hasn't stopped them from shooting as well as I can shoot them with the some Master scores and one HM score in the mix. As a matter of fact the putty and moleskin surely help and the scratches give them character. BUt I shoot the Ultradots, because, so far, they work. I may get an aimpoint this year for the wadgun, I think that the lighter mass might be helpful. But for the 22's, I will likely keep the UD's until I have a reason to replace them.

When I first started shooting bullseye I bought a used Pardini and in a year and a half I shot an 881. It had a 1" ADCO held on by one ring.

You can expect better performance with better equipment, but in the case with the ADCO, other stuff also works.

Btw, matchdot does have negative magnification.

If there was a like button, I would press it for Ghillieman's comment
.

SW-52 wrote:the UD HD-Micro,is in the same league of Aimpoint micro??? the aimpoint,have resolution?

I was using the HD Micro on my 32 pardini as well as my.45.  The .45 dot was having intermittent problems of the dot going out before Camp Perry.  When I arrived at camp perry, I bought the UD HD Micro to replace the intermittent one and had plans to get the intermittent one fixed and move that to my pardini .22 to replace the older UD 4-dot matchdot. 

I got the gun sighted in at the function range and when .45 day came around all hell broke loose.  LITERALLY.  half way through the match the HD Micro separated from the built in scope mount clamp.  I probably lost over 100 points due to this catastrophic failure.

Later the same day, I took it back to Larry's Guns where I bought it but he refused to give me my money back citing the onerous distributor deal he has with Ultra Dot forbids him from taking back a broken dot even if it was sold the same week.

I wrote a nasty letter to UD telling them I wanted my money back.

The best they would do is replace my dot with a different model.

They are sending me an UD Matchdot and now I am permanently done dealing with ultradot.  Its a piss poor business model to force your retailers to look bad to their customers by not allowing money back returns on defective products.