Casing Catcher?

First topic message reminder :

Hello all,

I am new to Practical Pistol Shooting. I have shot a partial match and really enjoyed it. One of the guys that I shot with had a fishing net looking thing that I can only call a casing catcher. Stands on the shooting table and catches spent casings so you don't have to sweep. I have since looked all over with no luck.

When can I find those? I have since seen a lot of them in black to have to have been commercially produced.

Your help appreciated..

Bill in Cypress, Texas U.S.A.

I'm shooting on a budget so I like a brass catcher. (I don't own one yet I'm notorious for borrowing stuff). However - I get my brass free from the range I work at. But if I drop any it just goes into their circulation. And at a local match it keeps me from having to sweep in the end. Most shooters use a net locally for me.

JKR wrote:Al, is it true that on the rifle range the wind flags are a 4' section of log chain?

Jim

Now that's just silly!
ND shooters know you can't have a longer section than 2', otherwise the ends just whip off.

I think Kate's Wyoming matches would resemble the same.

I really wasn't kidding about the weights, bunjie cords & c-clamps tho.

Al

Wobbley wrote:I think John is saying that the High Masters don't worry about the 180 pieces of brass shot in a match.  They're eliminating one more distraction.  

There is, however, a social grace thing too in that you're not pelting your neighbor with brass when you use one.  Years ago we had wire mesh screens clamped to our boxes to prevent brass from pelting us.  Many still carry these things.

Please get (i.e., make) a brass screen before monkeying around with a brass catcher.

I'M responsible for dealing with brass hitting me from the left; the shooter to my left is NOT.

If you're concerned about "social graces", you can loan your brass screen to the person to the right of you who can't be arsed to wrap some duct tape around the edges of a 2'x1' piece of 1/4" screen.

The NRA rulebook says nothing about brass catchers, but it does define the legality of brass screens. Hmmmm...

+1 for John's comments.

When I started, High Master Randy said the brass would be just fine on the ground until the match was over.  

He had a similar comment about leaving clipboard, repair centers and stapler down range after scoring. 

I finally understood when he asked if I normally did all those bends and squats when training? (Think about it, I see shooters having to bend over to get score sheets to score the targets and then again for their repair center and stapler after every scoring string. Then back to the line and scrounging brass.) 

I took the comment to heart and now I don't do much additional exercising while shooting a 2700.  (Maybe police a few pieces of brass as a distraction or if they are in the walkway, but nothing fanatical about getting it all...) 

If a brass catcher helps, that's great.  If it becomes a distraction or interferes with the process of getting points, then what's the point?  

As John has said, a 1 day 2700 is an endurance event, not a sprint.

CR

I guess it is all a matter of eliminating as many distractions as you can during a match.  If you are concerned about your brass going everywhere while you shoot, then you may want to get a brass catcher.  (But as John said, you need brass screens before you need a brass catcher).  But do not expect to be able to set it up in such a way to catch 100% of your brass.  You will experience 'inventory shrinkage' whether you use a brass catcher or not.  So don't let the loss of brass distract you.  As others have said, the CMM is the way to go.
 
The reason I leave repair centers, score sheet, stapler, overlays, extra staples, pasters, etc down range is because I got sick and tired of going down range only to find out I forgot something, ran out of staples, got the wrong repair center and so on.  I worry less doing it this way.  p.s. I keep the overlays, pasters, extra staples, pen/pencil inside my 'fold over' clipboard and the score sheet attached to the clipboard.  So I only carry three things; repair centers, clip board, stapler.

I understand about screens and catchers. I don't sweat loosing brass. I just did not understand the remark about "They are called "Sharpshooter Nets" for a reason." What reason?

SNaymola wrote:I understand about screens and catchers. I don't sweat loosing brass. I just did not understand the remark about "They are called "Sharpshooter Nets" for a reason." What reason?

Probably cause most marksman/sharpshooter/expert focus more on things like case catchers,reloading,ammo choices while the masters and high master focus on fundamentals.

john bickar wrote:

I'M responsible for dealing with brass hitting me from the left; the shooter to my left is NOT.

If you're concerned about "social graces", you can loan your brass screen to the person to the right of you who can't be arsed to wrap some duct tape around the edges of a 2'x1' piece of 1/4" screen.

The NRA rulebook says nothing about brass catchers, but it does define the legality of brass screens. Hmmmm...

John,


As a new BE shooter this year, your comments are bothersome.   I got hit with hot brass on my nose twice in the same timed fire string at my first 2700.  

As long as we want new shooters to join the sport and don't want to have a long checklist of mandatory starting items, it never hurts to be considerate to the shooter on your right.

You can be assured that had the shooter to my left displayed the attitude above, I would have never come back.


Ian

https://www.facebook.com/USAMU1956/videos/10154507452699734/

Ian:

I believe John made appropriate comments.  Make a screen first.  If you are worried about the shooter on your right, give them a screen.  What's bothersome about the comments?  .

Wow, you got hit twice on the nose twice on the same time fire string.  I had both .22 and .45 brass land in the inner elbow of the firing hand, stick there and still finished the string.  Its part of shooting.  

I'm the one that needed to adjust the screen. Generally, the guy my left can't even get his bullets to land in the same area everytime, much less his brass....

Per the rules, screens are specifically mentioned, brass catchers are not.  That's a fact. As a match director, I can tell you that the line is pretty visually crowded already with screens and boxes.   Adding more catchers just adds to the visual obstruction.  And I've already heard of comments about shooters using catchers as a brace or rest or simply holding their arms against it.  

Since brass can go anywhere, even up and straight back, mandating a catcher would not really accomplish anything.  You know it will not catch it all. 

So just based on the above two observations, don't be surprised if a "suggested" rule change does not go the way of mandating brass catchers.  

Allowing shooters to have screens seems to be the best solution so far.  Unless we all go to singe shot pistols....

Personal protection (of all types)....Don't leave home without them.

Cecil (Just Waitin' for the Hurricane) Rhodes

I'm new to this and have shot few matches. Like I said I borrow a catcher sometimes but only to save my brass - not for the sake of the guy to my right. What I don't catch I don't care to lose.

I took a new shooter friend of mine to a match with me and got some of his 22 brass coming over my box. None hit me. In slow fire I noticed it. In sustained fire I did not. When it bothered me i thought "man! Just buy a catcher!" Then I looked down the line and saw a couple shooters had screens. THEN my thought was "Now THERES a solution!". I'd sooner spend a couple bucks on a screen then $100 on a net.

Shooting BE can be like a dance sometimes; have to constantly reposition yourself to avoid being hit by brass. When I was a newer BE shooter on the USAR pistol team I was in my 20's and 99% of the other team shooters were late 40's and older. Majority of them had screens for brass. But as we shoot more and more matches we learn they are not foolproof! I think I've only used a screen 3-4 times ever in my 20 plus years of shooting matches. I just find a good spot to stand and deal with it. I have taken 2nd in a championship match before because of brass, but that's just another story. As we season as shooters we learn to just shoot and not sweat the small stuff. John doesn't sweat the small stuff, he focuses on what it takes to win and shoves the small stuff to the side. Way I always looked at it was the marksman were gonna complain enough about everything that I didn't need to :l)  Watch the masters! They just shoot....no bitchin' no moanin' because it doesn't help you shoot tens.
Jon

Jon / Tim:

A lot of the "knowledge" for bullseye shooting used to be gained a different way.  Here is a post I made quite some time ago.  That's the way we used to learn about bullseye shooting...prior to the internet of opinion, er, things.  Sometimes I forget I need to be a better OFBS.  So, in that respect, I'm still learning too.  Have fun reading.

OFBS - GONE OR SIMPLY UNUSED?

From the number of posts with general questions (and opinions) from new shooters and not so new ones I've come to a disturbing conclusion.  Since I started bullseye shooting some time ago, there appears to have been an unnoticed but slow decline of that species known as "Old Fart Bullseye Shooter" or OFBS.   

When I started shooting, there were a number of models and various vintages of OFBS to choose from and they were somewhat needed to guide the new shooter through the undocumented and strange evolution into a "Bullseye Shooter".  The proper selection, care and feeding of one or more of the OFBS species would provide a substantial amount of useful (and most times considerably opinionated) material and information.  For the most part, in the pre-internet era, they were the holder of the information and opinions needed to get into the bullseye sport.  On the other hand, the typical OFBS may also have been the holder of another type of "BS" depending on the subject at hand.  Therefor the selection of a OFBS was crucial to the development of the beginning bullseye shooter. Overall however, the OFBS was the backbone of developing bullseye shooters throughout the country.  Sadly, from the number and types of questions posted on this list and elsewhere, it appears the OFBS supply is depleted or in serious decline.
\
Now don't get me wrong, the selection of an OFBS and his new shooter should not be taken lightly.  The new shooter would be engulfed from all sides with various shooting types, intent on parting their select brand of wisdom, and the selection of the first OFBS was often a random event.  As the beginning shooter became more adept at shooting, scoring, reloading and listening, they would typically graduate to the next level OFBS as needed or available.  The progression through the various classes would generally see the bullseye shooter add another OFBS to his or her collection.  And the OFBS would generally have another bullseye shooter coming along as well. 

Now this was not a one way relationship at all.  Both parties would see benefits from the relationship, learning about the sport, rules and competitions and providing support and assistance to each other throughout the years.  I witnessed many shooters helping their shooting partners navigate matches, carrying gun boxes for older shooters, watching out for them at the bigger matches and Perry, providing rides, guns and even scoring so they would not have to make the trip to the line.  Lifelong relationships across generations were developed, and I got to watch and be a part of that.   At the time, I did not realize what was happening.  And we, as bullseye shooters, may be missing the decline of a former integral part of our sport.   I sincerely hope not and have penned this short note to bring it to our attention.

Now, all joking aside, to my former OFBSs, Tom Burch, Bob Way, John Torres, and all the others that took me in hand and showed the the ropes, how to score, marking brass, what leg point are, scoring refires, etc. etc, etc.   Thank you from the bottom of my heart.   Hopefully, I can become as good a OFBS as you were to me.   Thanks again.

Cecil Rhodes

When I first started shooting bullseye, the league I joined did not have any masters or high masters.  So we marksman, sharpshooters and experts were helping each other the best we could.  When I expanded to shoot at other ranges, I met a Master that I have come to respect (and still do) but he was not able to work with me due to his other obligations.  So I pick up things here and there but I am sure I am still doing things wrong/not as well as I should.
 
What I have done in the past few months is challenge most everything I do.  Why am I using European style grips?  Why am I using this caliber for CF?  Why am I using this .45 instead of my other one?  Why am I doing this particular step in my shot process? etc.  I decided to do this because, now that I have some experience, I wish to root out my crutches and worries/fears and eliminate them.  This has lead to a number of changes that, while they have resulted in noticeable lower match scores, I believe will serve me well in the long run.  I just hope the long run doesn't take too long to get here...
 
Now, back to the original topic; brass catchers.  I have noticed that shooters who are sponsored (either by a company or their branch of military) do not use brass catchers because their ammo is supplied to them.  Using a brass catcher at Perry can be challenging because you set up on one firing point for slow fire and then have to haul all your gear to another firing point and set it up for sustained fire.  If you use a brass catcher at Perry, it is one more thing to haul around the base and between firing lines.  At local matches I use a brass catcher just because, in my mind, it makes life easier for me.  I am just not a big fan of the post-match Easter egg hunt.

CR10X wrote:Ian:

I believe John made appropriate comments.  Make a screen first.  If you are worried about the shooter on your right, give them a screen.  What's bothersome about the comments?  .

Wow, you got hit twice on the nose twice on the same time fire string.  I had both .22 and .45 brass land in the inner elbow of the firing hand, stick there and still finished the string.  Its part of shooting.  

I'm the one that needed to adjust the screen. Generally, the guy my left can't even get his bullets to land in the same area everytime, much less his brass....

Per the rules, screens are specifically mentioned, brass catchers are not.  That's a fact. As a match director, I can tell you that the line is pretty visually crowded already with screens and boxes.   Adding more catchers just adds to the visual obstruction.  And I've already heard of comments about shooters using catchers as a brace or rest or simply holding their arms against it.  

Since brass can go anywhere, even up and straight back, mandating a catcher would not really accomplish anything.  You know it will not catch it all. 

So just based on the above two observations, don't be surprised if a "suggested" rule change does not go the way of mandating brass catchers.  

Allowing shooters to have screens seems to be the best solution so far.  Unless we all go to singe shot pistols....

Personal protection (of all types)....Don't leave home without them.

Cecil (Just Waitin' for the Hurricane) Rhodes

I wasn't suggesting any rule changes. Nor was I whining about being hit. The first case distracted me a bit and I took my shot.  The second one so broke my concentration that I put down the pistol and stepped back from the line. The original comment struck me as "grow a pair" which is appropriate for a seasoned competitor, but I felt inappropriate for treating the new shooter to your right. You are entitled to see it differently.

I'm a big wuss emphasis on big. I don't like scooting around picking up brass so I got a good net and a set of grabbers so I can pick up any brass that misses the net. I also don't like giving up any of my brass that I have become attached to. Below is a pretty typical line. Some catchers, some screens and most shooters without anything.

I was at a match this summer and I had forgotten my brass catcher.  My 22 was nailing the guy to my right (a lefty) pretty much on every shot.  I was looking for a solution when the match director informed me that once it leaves your gun it's no longer your concern - the same thing I was told when I first started rifle shooting years ago.  There was a time when there were no screens or catchers.

It was probably more distracting to me, I even caught myself canting my gun to the right to try and toss the brass down.

- Dave

I get the opportunity to shoot with some very good, very tall shooters a couple of times a year. One of them is a foot taller than me. Occasionally in the 2700 a piece of brass would fly in front of me. But in the leg match my gun was kicking them straight up and back over my head and his was bouncing them off the top and side of my head in slowfire. For sustained fire I put the blinders on my glasses, pulled my hat down, and didn't notice them any more.

It's just the way things go, but I made a deflector after that match.

Aprilian wrote:

john bickar wrote:

I'M responsible for dealing with brass hitting me from the left; the shooter to my left is NOT.

If you're concerned about "social graces", you can loan your brass screen to the person to the right of you who can't be arsed to wrap some duct tape around the edges of a 2'x1' piece of 1/4" screen.

The NRA rulebook says nothing about brass catchers, but it does define the legality of brass screens. Hmmmm...

John,


As a new BE shooter this year, your comments are bothersome.   I got hit with hot brass on my nose twice in the same timed fire string at my first 2700.  

As long as we want new shooters to join the sport and don't want to have a long checklist of mandatory starting items, it never hurts to be considerate to the shooter on your right.

You can be assured that had the shooter to my left displayed the attitude above, I would have never come back.


Ian

Ian - there's guys here who shoot for fun and enjoyment and guys who don't. Try not to pay too much attention from the guys who don't. They're here to point out that we're only allowed to do what high masters do and if we differ at all to make sure we're "corrected" LOL. Get the brass catcher. I've seen plenty at Camp Perry and a few at other places. Good luck in your shooting.

Has anyone ever noticed how the advice from Masters and High Masters always sound similar? Now a suspicious person might assume a conspiracy. On the other hand an observant person might see that they are all focusing on the fundamentals and doing all that they can to minimize the less important. When I hear the same advice from Bickar, Eulette, CR10x, Ed Hall,  Zins and my personal mentors (Doug Bronnenberg and The Gathrights), I can either listen or ignore them. I choose to listen, and "amazingly," I see performance  improvement. 

Shooting is fun. Improving and winning are more fun.

On a less serious observation I have noticed that a lot of brass still misses the brass catcher. I have solved that problem and also improved my scores. All brass catchers work better when they are closer to the pistol and less chance of missing. Further reflection made me realize that if the catcher completely surrounded the pistol I would have zero brass loss. This picture shows why a fully adjustable catcher is a must. I wonder if I can talk CMM into putting a little padding on the lower bar.  Are we having fun yet?

LenV wrote:On a less serious observation I have noticed that a lot of brass still misses the brass catcher. I have solved that problem and also improved my scores. All brass catchers work better when they are closer to the pistol and less chance of missing. Further reflection made me realize that if the catcher completely surrounded the pistol I would have zero brass loss. This picture shows why a fully adjustable catcher is a must. I wonder if I can talk CMM into putting a little padding on the lower bar.  Are we having fun yet?

With the gun that close have you tried it for reliability? Case bouncing back and interfering with the action? 

LenV wrote:On a less serious observation I have noticed that a lot of brass still misses the brass catcher. I have solved that problem and also improved my scores. All brass catchers work better when they are closer to the pistol and less chance of missing. Further reflection made me realize that if the catcher completely surrounded the pistol I would have zero brass loss. This picture shows why a fully adjustable catcher is a must. I wonder if I can talk CMM into putting a little padding on the lower bar.  Are we having fun yet?

I'm surprised your hand fits in that brass catcher, LOL.

BTW, I never said "grow a pair"; I said:

1) Make a screen
2) If you must use a brass catcher, buy a CMM.

C-Train wrote:

Ian - there's guys here who shoot for fun and enjoyment and guys who don't. Try not to pay too much attention from the guys who don't. They're here to point out that we're only allowed to do what high masters do and if we differ at all to make sure we're "corrected" LOL. Get the brass catcher. I've seen plenty at Camp Perry and a few at other places. Good luck in your shooting.

Some "guys here" - in addition to shooting - also run a lot of matches, and call the line, and mentor new shooters, and run stats, and set up the range, and tear down the range, and repair target frames, and repair target systems, and go to the Boards of Directors of their various clubs to get bullseye matches approved, and do all of the other thankless tasks that make our sport and its "fun and enjoyment" possible.

Some "guys here" have "seen plenty" of everything "at Camp Perry" and at "a few other places".

Some "guys here" would rather have you learn from their mistakes, rather than see you repeat them on your own.

It's your choice whether to "pay too much attention" to those "guys" or not.

Good luck in your shooting.

I currently don't have a catcher, too many I seen didn't work well plus were too much to carry to the range. I don't worry about Perry, one match a year will not lower my brass count to worry about. My son purchased a 2 gun box that's perfect for Perry. I ordered one! Less I have to carry the better.  I'm thinking of getting of getting the CMM catcher posted earlier but only the top part to use at local matches or some distant 2 day matches. I'll make the lower part the way I want it
 I did buy a 30" Grabber or what ever its called, sort of a 30" long tweezers. Used it at a couple of matches and it worked well and a lot easier to carry plus no set-up required.
 Slightly a bit off topic but Jon and John are correct. First a shooter is there to compete not concern himself with where his brass is going! Some guns send brass 5 positions away or more, the shooter will be doing a dance to keep everyone on the right happy! Can't be controlled anyway as most with brass catchers know. To have the shooter on the left have to change his stance or something to avoid hitting the shooter on the right is too much to ask! The shooter should have a screen or simply ignore the brass. Over the years I have had brass hit me everywhere, last year at Perry a .22 brass went behind my glasses so I put a sunshade on the left. I dress knowing brass will be bouncing around, a few women shooters have learned to do it too. Being lazy I didn't make a screen just another thing to add to the clutter I carry to the range so if I get pelted that's my fault! As John said we offer advise to help new shooters, we've been there and done that and why most of the top shooters say the same thing! Take our advise or not that's simply your decision but it will not get you anywhere wanting others to change to accommodate your shooting. Only one thing that is required is Safety! If a shooter to my left or anywhere on the line is unsafe I will make an issue of it!