Jacketed vs lead and barrel wear

by lanjo Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:19 pm

Hi All,

I have a newbie question. Do jacketed pistol bullets wear out a barrel faster than lead? I have a match accurate K38 and 1911 both worked up by pistol smiths. I use lead bullets for competitions and they are quite accurate. I shoot indoor in the winter months, and the indoor range only allows jacketed bullets. I got caught shooting lead and got a warning recently. I need to shoot jacketed bullets or I could get banned from the club. Will the shooting of jacketed bullets from my bulls eye guns wear out the barrels and reduce there life span? I shoot both the 38 special and 45 at ~ 750-800 fps.

Best,

by LenV Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:45 pm

Probably easier on barrels. Not that the bullet is any easier but less worry about leading and excessive cleaning. Excessive cleaning is hard on barrels. If you are really worried you could switch to a platted bullet. The only reason they want you to switch is some lawyer said they have to worry about lead levels. Platted bullets will fulfill the coating requirement. They won't be as accurate (observed by me) but indoors should be fine. Whatever you do don't let them know that primers are a greater contributor to the perceived problem. They may make you find "safe" primers. What do they do about the .22 shooters?

by lanjo Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:59 pm

The 22 shooters can use lead. Maybe they think the coated bullets put less lead into the air.

When you say probably easier on barrels, bo you mean lead bullets or jacketed?

by Jon Eulette Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:16 pm

I just re-barreled a .38 spl 1911 with sleeved barrel. Assume Douglas 1:10 twist blank. Pistol was built in 91. 148 gr hbwc only bullet fired through barrel. It was the most worn out barrel I have ever seen! I was very surprised because I have my own high mileage .38 that still shoots phenomenally well. So it's really hard to say.
Jon

by LenV Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:34 am

lanjo wrote:The 22 shooters can use lead. Maybe they think the coated bullets put less lead into the air.

When you say probably easier on barrels, bo you mean lead bullets or jacketed?

Jacketed are probably easier.

by **Wobbley** Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:23 am

Ask if they'll accept coated "hi-tek coating" lead bullets. Leading and vaporized lead is almost nil.

by davekp Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:49 am

Jon Eulette wrote:I just re-barreled a .38 spl 1911 with sleeved barrel. Assume Douglas 1:10 twist blank. Pistol was built in 91. 148 gr hbwc only bullet fired through barrel. It was the most worn out barrel I have ever seen! I was very surprised because I have my own high mileage .38 that still shoots phenomenally well. So it's really hard to say.
Jon

Is it possible the barrel was overcleaned?

by rich.tullo Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:02 am

How often do you clean. I clean about once every 500 rounds? A little more rounds, if I am shooting a cleaner powder.

by Al Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:12 am

Just my own experience with 4 Kart barrels, so this is not to be interpreted as a given. 2 of those 4 have been on my first wad gun. The other 2 are on my hardball gun & my second wad gun.

My first Kart was gone in less than 30,000 rounds. I had put a lot of jacketed and very hard cast that had been water quenched through it. It went from a 2" barrel to a 5" barrel, @ 50 yards, from my Ransom rest.

The current Kart barrel, on the same slide & frame, has had over 40,000 rounds of 99% cast range scrap (BN of 8-9) and maybe a 1000-1500 of Nostler & Zero 185 JHP, and still has no problems holding 2". Originally this barrel would produce a 1 1/2"-1 3/4" group fairly consistently, so it may be wearing or my loading technique was off for that load/test session.

The Kart on my hardball gun has seen about 2500 jacketed, >95% of those were full hardball and just last year I worked up a load with Zero 185 JHP, so there's a hundred or so of those. It's also seen several thousand long line rounds of cast H&G 68 with 4.2 of WST.

I'm willing to bet there's more than a few BE smiths on here that have either been military armorers or know a few that can give you a much larger picture than just one person's experience, but this was mine. FWIW
Al

by Gary Wells Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:34 pm

Great thread, and excellent topic. All my shooting life I have always heard that lead, being softer than jacketed material, was much easier on barrel life. How could I be so dumb as to not think of or consider cleaning the bore. Oops, my bad. Not only have I shot lead only, or mainly, in all of my .45 autos, I have been handloading a very light target load. I'm totally dumbfounded to have not considered scrubbing the bore. I'll bet that if this query is posted up on other forums, most peeps will claim that lead being softer, will damage the bore less. No more scrubbing the hell out of my barrel. To make matters worse for me, if at all possible, I can't shoot all that good anyway, so I am sure that I would not notice the difference.

by joy2shoot Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:33 pm

What about JB Bore Cleaning Compound? It states it will 'not injure the finest bore'. But I have heard it contains very fine abrasives and works like a lapping compound, which does not sound like a good thing when trying to clean a bore.

by Gary Wells Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:47 pm

joy2shoot wrote:What about JB Bore Cleaning Compound? It states it will 'not injure the finest bore'. But I have heard it contains very fine abrasives and works like a lapping compound, which does not sound like a good thing when trying to clean a bore.

There's a thread going on or was going on the last couple of days in which the OP stated that he used it & it had some black particles from hois bore scrub with this product

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=712954&highlight=jb+bore+cleaner

by CR10X Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:35 pm

deleted

by Kermit Workman Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:40 pm

With the 1911 you will wear the barrel fits(bushing and slide stop) out before the rifling in the barrel.
At target velocities, I think your grandchildren will need to tell you when the barrel on the M-14 has been shot out and what they shot in it.
My guess over cleaning and improper cleaning is harder on a pistol barrel than shooting.

by Bigtrout Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:41 am

Gary Wells wrote:
joy2shoot wrote:What about JB Bore Cleaning Compound? It states it will 'not injure the finest bore'. But I have heard it contains very fine abrasives and works like a lapping compound, which does not sound like a good thing when trying to clean a bore.
There's a thread going on or was going on the last couple of days in which the OP stated that he used it & it had some black particles from hois bore scrub with this product

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=712954&highlight=jb+bore+cleaner

I responded to the 1911 thread because I've used JB on my 1911 after every 1000 rounds (so far, 3000) as the groups seem to grow at about that point. After the JB treatment my groups do restabilize. Although I do not see a residue associated with copper fouling, the JB does leave a pitch black residue which turns dark gray with 5 to 8 patch runs, at which point I begin to use Kroil to flush the JB. I think one of the smiths in this forum stated a JB treatment removes .0003" from the bore. If so, I'm nearing a thousandth inch larger bore but my groups are still near 5/8-7/8" on my good days. Hmmmm.

by Gary Wells Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:10 pm

Bigtrout wrote:
Gary Wells wrote:
joy2shoot wrote:What about JB Bore Cleaning Compound? It states it will 'not injure the finest bore'. But I have heard it contains very fine abrasives and works like a lapping compound, which does not sound like a good thing when trying to clean a bore.
There's a thread going on or was going on the last couple of days in which the OP stated that he used it & it had some black particles from hois bore scrub with this product

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=712954&highlight=jb+bore+cleaner
I responded to the 1911 thread because I've used JB on my 1911 after every 1000 rounds (so far, 3000) as the groups seem to grow at about that point. After the JB treatment my groups do restabilize. Although I do not see a residue associated with copper fouling, the JB does leave a pitch black residue which turns dark gray with 5 to 8 patch runs, at which point I begin to use Kroil to flush the JB. I think one of the smiths in this forum stated a JB treatment removes .0003" from the bore. If so, I'm nearing a thousandth inch larger bore but my groups are still near 5/8-7/8" on my good days. Hmmmm.

Sir/Sirs:
I.m not passing judgement on the merits or non-merits of JB Bore Cleaner, only posting a link to the other thread. I do not remember any gunnie posting about a .0003 increase on bore size, at least not in this thread. Regardless, I miss the gunnie that was on here, but no longer is on this site. In my personal opinion, definitely our loss.

by Bigtrout Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:11 am

Gary, I apologize to you and the forum for a misleading reply. I searched and found "bullshooter" wrote a reply 4/27/16 to my JB thread that said he "saw an article somewhere" that stated JB removed .0003". Sorry for the misinformation and misappropriated quote.

Dave

by Gary Wells Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:33 pm

Bigtrout wrote:Gary, I apologize to you and the forum for a misleading reply. I searched and found "bullshooter" wrote a reply 4/27/16 to my JB thread that said he "saw an article somewhere" that stated JB removed .0003". Sorry for the misinformation and misappropriated quote.

Dave

No problem Dave. You owe me no apology. we put to print what we think and I have made more than my share of misquotes & mistakes. I was just "whiny" that day I guess.

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