VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
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jmdavis
rich.tullo
Allen Barnett
CR10X
Chris Miceli
spursnguns
10 posters
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VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
Hello all,
Are all VihtaVuori pistol powders as negatively impacted by cold temperatures as N310 is? Specifically, N320?
Thanks.
Jim
Are all VihtaVuori pistol powders as negatively impacted by cold temperatures as N310 is? Specifically, N320?
Thanks.
Jim
spursnguns- Posts : 611
Join date : 2013-01-04
Age : 66
Location : Nampa, Idaho
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
so they say... i never had problem w/ 310 when i was in alaska @ the range in 10-20 degree
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
Hello Chris,
4.2 grains of N310 has given me flawless functioning in many M1911s in the past but recently failed to cycle two different ones when the temperature dipped to the low/mid forties. Yes, I know that is not really cold but I live in California and the load was developed and is typically used in the seventy degree (plus) range.
Jim
4.2 grains of N310 has given me flawless functioning in many M1911s in the past but recently failed to cycle two different ones when the temperature dipped to the low/mid forties. Yes, I know that is not really cold but I live in California and the load was developed and is typically used in the seventy degree (plus) range.
Jim
spursnguns- Posts : 611
Join date : 2013-01-04
Age : 66
Location : Nampa, Idaho
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
I shoot 3.8 n310 in all weather @ 25
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
I'll bet the 3.8 gr is with lead bullets and the 4.2 is with jacketed? In my experience, the 4.2 is about minimal / marginal with recent vintages of vv310 and slide mount scopes with normal range of springs. 4.4 is where I generally see no function issues with slide mounts now.
3.8 is actually a pretty good level load with lead bullets (200 gr especially due to the case volume used by most SWC designs in that weight).
When I first started I only noticed some temperature issues when testing or using very light loads of VV310. My generally assumption is that while it is a "fast" progressive powder, there is probably a charge level versus case volume issue that surfaces when minimum loads are used.
With 3.85 gr for lead (0.469 crimp) and 4.4 gr for jacketed (0.470 crimp) both federal cases; I do not see any temperature issues. However, you may find that for certain lead bullets of 180 grains or less, even 3.85 gr of current vintage vv310 can become a little light and requires reduced springs or bumping the powder charge.
Again, internal ballistics for pistol reloading is generally an exercise in finding the most important variable out of an infinity of variables and pleading with it to let you shoot a good group.
3.8 is actually a pretty good level load with lead bullets (200 gr especially due to the case volume used by most SWC designs in that weight).
When I first started I only noticed some temperature issues when testing or using very light loads of VV310. My generally assumption is that while it is a "fast" progressive powder, there is probably a charge level versus case volume issue that surfaces when minimum loads are used.
With 3.85 gr for lead (0.469 crimp) and 4.4 gr for jacketed (0.470 crimp) both federal cases; I do not see any temperature issues. However, you may find that for certain lead bullets of 180 grains or less, even 3.85 gr of current vintage vv310 can become a little light and requires reduced springs or bumping the powder charge.
Again, internal ballistics for pistol reloading is generally an exercise in finding the most important variable out of an infinity of variables and pleading with it to let you shoot a good group.
CR10X- Posts : 1777
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
4.2 n310 @ 50 3.8 N310 @ 25 w/ 185jhp. My "ball gun" can run 3.6 N310 @ 25...but i got lazy and don't feel like adjusting my powder bar.
I recently ordered some zero 200swc will try the 3.85
I recently ordered some zero 200swc will try the 3.85
Last edited by Chris Miceli on 1/9/2017, 12:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
Ok guys I am going to throw something out at you. It might not be your choice of powder at all but your choice of lube on your slide. You might try using a different lube first before going into a load development tailspin.
Allen Barnett- Posts : 523
Join date : 2012-10-22
Age : 68
Location : Central Missouri
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
Hello all,
Yes, CR10X, my load is for the 185 grains Nosler and I too have heard that the current batches of N310 differ some from earlier batches. I may put together some 4.4 grains loads to try for when we get a frost again.
Allen, while cold temperatures can play havoc with oil viscosity, I don't believe it is the major contributor in this case. The loads even choked with my relatively loose 30 plus year old backup gun.
Jim
Yes, CR10X, my load is for the 185 grains Nosler and I too have heard that the current batches of N310 differ some from earlier batches. I may put together some 4.4 grains loads to try for when we get a frost again.
Allen, while cold temperatures can play havoc with oil viscosity, I don't believe it is the major contributor in this case. The loads even choked with my relatively loose 30 plus year old backup gun.
Jim
spursnguns- Posts : 611
Join date : 2013-01-04
Age : 66
Location : Nampa, Idaho
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
Poor baby it was 6 degrees when I woke up this morning. lolspursnguns wrote:Hello Chris,
4.2 grains of N310 has given me flawless functioning in many M1911s in the past but recently failed to cycle two different ones when the temperature dipped to the low/mid forties. Yes, I know that is not really cold but I live in California and the load was developed and is typically used in the seventy degree (plus) range.
Jim
310 is temperature sensitive, go with a lighter recoil spring #10 should work or bump the load to 4.5gn if you are shooting JHPs.
You could also switch to BE and it will work about the same above 30 degrees.
rich.tullo- Posts : 2006
Join date : 2015-03-27
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
Good point Allen CLP is lousy in the cold. Lucus seems much better.Allen Barnett wrote:Ok guys I am going to throw something out at you. It might not be your choice of powder at all but your choice of lube on your slide. You might try using a different lube first before going into a load development tailspin.
rich.tullo- Posts : 2006
Join date : 2015-03-27
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
Hello Rich,
Six degrees! Yikes. How can you drink Margaritas and lay out at the beach in that type of weather?
I did have some Bullseye loads stashed away in my truck that I used to get out of my pickle.
But getting back to my original question, do other VihtoVuori powders have this issue?
Thanks all,
Jim
Six degrees! Yikes. How can you drink Margaritas and lay out at the beach in that type of weather?
I did have some Bullseye loads stashed away in my truck that I used to get out of my pickle.
But getting back to my original question, do other VihtoVuori powders have this issue?
Thanks all,
Jim
spursnguns- Posts : 611
Join date : 2013-01-04
Age : 66
Location : Nampa, Idaho
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
Chris, I have found (and some others have as well) that with most 185 JHP / powder combinations, the groups tend to get smaller as the velocity increases. For 185 JHPs (Nobler / Zero) I generally use 4.4 to 4.5 gr VV310 which I think is definitely not a minimum recoil load. On the other hand, groups were smaller than with the 4.2 and lesser loads I was testing when CMP changed the EIC ammo and gun rules. Above 4.4 gr, the recoil started to trend to the point of more than I wanted for timed and rapid.
A 200gr or 180 gr LSWC with 3.85 gr VV310 shoots much softer and is my choice for NRA 2700 CF / .45 matches.
And both of these loads show very good case expansion in the chamber (very little soot on cases) and combustion is very complete, these are very clean burning loads. Which doesn't mean a thing when it comes to groups, but its a nice side benefit.
A 200gr or 180 gr LSWC with 3.85 gr VV310 shoots much softer and is my choice for NRA 2700 CF / .45 matches.
And both of these loads show very good case expansion in the chamber (very little soot on cases) and combustion is very complete, these are very clean burning loads. Which doesn't mean a thing when it comes to groups, but its a nice side benefit.
CR10X- Posts : 1777
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
rich.tullo wrote:Poor baby it was 6 degrees when I woke up this morning. lolspursnguns wrote:Hello Chris,
4.2 grains of N310 has given me flawless functioning in many M1911s in the past but recently failed to cycle two different ones when the temperature dipped to the low/mid forties. Yes, I know that is not really cold but I live in California and the load was developed and is typically used in the seventy degree (plus) range.
Jim
310 is temperature sensitive, go with a lighter recoil spring #10 should work or bump the load to 4.5gn if you are shooting JHPs.
You could also switch to BE and it will work about the same above 30 degrees.
Went from Alaska to NC, to VA.. i'm spoiled i don't like anything below 50
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
So you are the one that brought the cold weather. It was 0 in Richmond this morning.
jmdavis- Posts : 1409
Join date : 2012-03-24
Location : Virginia
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
jmdavis wrote:So you are the one that brought the cold weather. It was 0 in Richmond this morning.
you're making me blush
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
HA HA , Yes I believe they are temperature sensitive. Like WST I believe VV Powders are single base hence the cleanliness. Bullseye is double base hence its dirtier even though its the same burn rate as 310.spursnguns wrote:Hello Rich,
Six degrees! Yikes. How can you drink Margaritas and lay out at the beach in that type of weather?
I did have some Bullseye loads stashed away in my truck that I used to get out of my pickle.
But getting back to my original question, do other VihtoVuori powders have this issue?
Thanks all,
Jim
rich.tullo- Posts : 2006
Join date : 2015-03-27
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
If you want to have some real fun, find some old Winchester 452 to play with. It was *inversely* affected by temperature.
mpolans- Posts : 606
Join date : 2016-05-27
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
Pretty sure all Winchester ball powders are double base.
Blsi2600- Posts : 158
Join date : 2013-03-27
Location : SW ILLINOIS
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
I use to shoot Clays because there was zero temp sensitivity for here in MN, couldn't find it and switched to WST, now I have to check my loads when it gets much below 30.
Lube, Mobil 1 full synthetic, I started using this on AR bolts when it got below zero.
- Dave
Lube, Mobil 1 full synthetic, I started using this on AR bolts when it got below zero.
- Dave
dronning- Posts : 2581
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 71
Location : Lakeville, MN
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
Even with Marvel Machinegun oil, my summer ball loads will not work reliably with a 13lb spring in the "ball gun." I even tested the Spring to check its weight.
At 4.0-4.2 bullseye with 185 jhp a Nosler. I never claimed they were hardball loads.
I've also noticed that my shortline 3.8 BE with 185 zero lswc are sluggish in the wad gun in temps below 40. Sometimes it is below 40 indoors when I go for practice.
At 4.0-4.2 bullseye with 185 jhp a Nosler. I never claimed they were hardball loads.
I've also noticed that my shortline 3.8 BE with 185 zero lswc are sluggish in the wad gun in temps below 40. Sometimes it is below 40 indoors when I go for practice.
jmdavis- Posts : 1409
Join date : 2012-03-24
Location : Virginia
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
CR10X wrote:... However, you may find that for certain lead bullets of 180 grains or less, even 3.85 gr of current vintage vv310 can become a little light and requires reduced springs or bumping the powder charge. ...
The unburnt powder you see in the barrel is from a load of 3.7gr of N310 using a polymer coated, 175gr, LSWC. This load was so light it would not cycle my 1911, even using a 8# recoil spring (slide mounted scope). So I tried it in my S&W 625. It left unburnt powder in the chamber, in the barrel and in the case. To CR10X's point, the smaller bullet resulted in larger case volume (as compared to a 185gr or a 200gr) and coupled with a light charge, resulted in a large amount of unburnt powder. So I need to 1)use a heavier bullet (i.e. longer bullet) that will reduce case volume and/or (probably and) 2)a heavier charge.
- Attachments
joy2shoot- Posts : 570
Join date : 2014-08-02
Location : North Carolina
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
did you try tighter crimp?joy2shoot wrote:CR10X wrote:... However, you may find that for certain lead bullets of 180 grains or less, even 3.85 gr of current vintage vv310 can become a little light and requires reduced springs or bumping the powder charge. ...
The unburnt powder you see in the barrel is from a load of 3.7gr of N310 using a polymer coated, 175gr, LSWC. This load was so light it would not cycle my 1911, even using a 8# recoil spring (slide mounted scope). So I tried it in my S&W 625. It left unburnt powder in the chamber, in the barrel and in the case. To CR10X's point, the smaller bullet resulted in larger case volume (as compared to a 185gr or a 200gr) and coupled with a light charge, resulted in a large amount of unburnt powder. So I need to 1)use a heavier bullet (i.e. longer bullet) that will reduce case volume and/or (probably and) 2)a heavier charge.
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
Actually yes. But if I make it any tighter, it will start cutting into the bullet.
joy2shoot- Posts : 570
Join date : 2014-08-02
Location : North Carolina
Re: VihtaVuori Powders And Cold Temperatures
add some atf fluid to that and you have rust protection toodronning wrote:I use to shoot Clays because there was zero temp sensitivity for here in MN, couldn't find it and switched to WST, now I have to check my loads when it gets much below 30.
Lube, Mobil 1 full synthetic, I started using this on AR bolts when it got below zero.
- Dave
rich.tullo- Posts : 2006
Join date : 2015-03-27
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