Limp...finger?

My 45 has recently been doubling. The manufacturer, highly respected and a bullseye shooter, was very concerned. I sent him the gun and he thoroughly checked the sear, sear spring, disconnector, hammer and more but all were good and he couldn't replicate the issue. He did say there was too much overtravel in the trigger and that could sometimes cause doubling. I got the gun back and it's still happening. He suggested having another shooter fire the gun. I couldn't believe it, no doubling.

I texted him from the range (about 8:30pm) and he called right back. He said he didn't want to say it because customers might think he was making excuses for his work but it's not uncommon for shooters, even shooters with some experience, to relax too much on the trigger.

He suggested a drill; fire a round but focus on keeping the trigger all the way back for a few seconds. Recover and feel the reset and hold it there for a few seconds. Then fire another round. It was getting late but I put about 30 more rounds through and, lo & behold, no doubling (ok, once but at least I felt the trigger).

Has anybody else experienced this? I never really feel my reset while shooting. What's proper reset technique?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

i always feel my trigger reset, i reset in recoil.

I have seen it with another person's gun. He was firing it in training, no issues. Someone else picked it up and it went auto. Twice. I tried the gun, no issues. The finger can make a difference.

Gun doubles.

You get told to hold it right or the gun will double.

Uhhhh, trying to think of situations where that is a proper solution.

I keep coming up with ZERO.

willnewton: I felt the same way but search for trigger bounce or trigger bump and you'll find I'm not the only one who's had the issue. The first step is ALWAYS to check the gun but, in this case, I'm convinced it's me. I did NOT want to believe it but, when it didn't happen to my friend and when I could prevent it by focusing on the issue, it seems to be shooter error.

Loose finger, slide goes forward, finger bounces off and back on. So fast, I didn't realize it was happening.

p.s. It's not so much how I hold the gun but how I manipulate the trigger.

Hey no one can say you are not keeping the trigger moving.  Don

But seriously folks...

weber1b wrote:I have seen it with another person's gun. He was firing it in training, no issues. Someone else picked it up and it went auto. Twice. I tried the gun, no issues. The finger can make a difference.

BTW, even though it did not go auto on him, he had the gun checked out by the manufacturer so it wouldn't happen to anyone again.

I'm with Chris, I always like to feel the trigger reset as part of the next shot's process

During recoil? During recovery? After realigning with target?

for me it's part of recovery as I restart the trigger

mspingeld wrote:During recoil? During recovery? After realigning with target?

I say during recoil, but i'm pretty sure i can't move my finger as fast as a slide cycle. So somewhere from boom and when my arm is up and the dot is off the aiming black i can feel myself resetting the trigger.... then as you often hear get the trigger moving as you come into the aiming area.

Loose finger, or no follow through combined with light trigger pull weight and recoil from a 45 can cause doubling. What's your pull weight on that gun? Do you have a crisp trigger where you're inching the sear off the hammer hooks, or do you have a confident, uninterrupted trigger pull?

A little more than 3-1/2 lbs. it's a short roll. I'm now confident the issue is  loose finger/weak follow through. I think working the drill in the op and being mentally aware of reset should fix this. 

Getting mixed replies on where in the process reset should occur. Hoping for a concensus.

On many striker fire guns you can hear the reset and feel it in your finger.  I just checker my 1911s with KC triggers and I can hear and feel the reset.  During dryfire pull the trigger and hold it back.  while holding it back cycle the clile cocking the gun.  Now very slowly let the trigger forward and you will at least feel it reset and probably hear it.  In action shooting that is the point you stop at for the next shot but I don't know about this BE.  Don

mspingeld wrote:A little more than 3-1/2 lbs. it's a short roll. I'm now confident the issue is  loose finger/weak follow through. I think working the drill in the op and being mentally aware of reset should fix this. 

Getting mixed replies on where in the process reset should occur. Hoping for a Consensus.

Don't expect a consensus.  Just find a trigger control that works for you.

Magload wrote:On many striker fire guns you can hear the reset and feel it in your finger.  I just checker my 1911s with KC triggers and I can hear and feel the reset.  During dryfire pull the trigger and hold it back.  while holding it back cycle the clile cocking the gun.  Now very slowly let the trigger forward and you will at least feel it reset and probably hear it.  In action shooting that is the point you stop at for the next shot but I don't know about this BE.  Don

That's where I stop and get back to mashing that trigger

Are you using anatomical grips? If so, how tightly do you keep the shelf adjusted?

That's what changed!!! I shot anatomical grips for a long time but recently went back to slabs. Shot 3 problem free matches with slabs but the last 2 matches were not problem free.

What brand pistol and what brand of trigger? What hammer/sear combination? It's very common if you have too much overtravel on some pistols that it will double. You have an expert classification so I am surprised its only happening to you.....but ;l)
Jon

Jon, It's an Accuracy X. I believe it's a Cylinder & Slide trigger. They adjusted the over-travel before shipping the pistol back.

As I said earlier, I think working the drill, as suggested, and being mentally aware of reset should fix this but I'm open to all ideas.

If the doubles were both X's I wouldn't be so concerned.

I come from a slow fire pistol shooting background so my learning and practice has always been to press the trigger and hold it to the rear through out the shot, and the recoil. Once the stops it's recoil away from the target, or let's say the gun is at it's peak then I reset. For slow fire it ends there. In sustained fire when the gun is at its peak I reset and then start recovery and trigger press at the same time. Dot hits center, bang, recoil, reset, recover, etc.

I'm certainly no gunsmith but I don't like a gun that doubles even if someone tells me that it is me. I would be inclined to have a new trigger job that might include a new hammer and sear. You don't need any nagging doubts about a pistol's reliability during a match

It very well can be shooter error.
I have several times tried to mimick a double or malfunction that one has been experiencing without ever being able to do it.

Are you shooting a roll trigger? I know I felt your trigger when we met I can't remember how it felt.

What is the reset like? There may need an adjustment to your reset.

When it doubles, where is the gun pointing, up over the target or is back on target but shooting before you pick up the sights again?

Here's the good thing. You listened, you are in fact moving the trigger before the sights get back on target, which is great.

Dry fire without looking at the sights NO AIMING just feel the trigger. After the hammer falls hold the trigger back consciously and deliberately reset the trigger and feel the reset. Do it a lot.
DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT aim or shoot and hold the trigger back and wait til your sights are on target to reset. You nights as well just shoot 4 rounds in rapid fire and hope for the best if you do that.

Personal opinion, your just a little over anxious to get the trigger moving before the sights are back on target. Which is a great a problem to have. The biggest problem I have is getting folks to move the trigger before perfect sight alignment/sight picture is obtained.

Thanks Brian!
1-The pistol has a short roll.
2-There was too much over-travel when I sent it back and has been adjusted. Now the reset is pretty short.
3-Second shot is in the clouds. If it was on target I might not complain so much
4-Yes, I've been consciously working on moving the trigger before back on target. No more jerking!

I assume you mean, dry fire, hold the trigger back, rack the slide, then feel the reset? and yes, I think you're right. I'm just a little over anxious. I never felt the reset while shooting in the past but I will make sure I feel it now. Just have to get the timing right. Reset while coming back to the black?