Nelson trigger weight

How many people here that shoot the nelson conversion lower the trigger weight to 2lbs? How many of you prefer the weight to match your centerfire 1911. Benefits?

VolScorpion wrote:How many people here that shoot the nelson conversion lower the trigger weight to 2lbs?  How many of you prefer the weight to match your centerfire 1911.  Benefits?

I left mine to match my LB Wadgun.  My reasoning is during practice if I shoot the 3.5lb trigger then switch to the 2lb trigger it messes me up.  Don't take a lot to do that in my case.  There fore both guns have the same KC triggers and they have not been changed any. I can see where a 2lb trigger might help but I don't know how to change that on the KC trigger.  Don

In my opinion 2.25# is lightest you should go. At 2# you'll get early shots in recovery on short line. With KC parts you can run 2# because longer engagement surfaces.
Jon

I have mine set at 2.5lbs. I always figured the reason we start with .22 matches first is so we can work our way up. I suspect that if we started with the 45 then a lot of 22's would go off before the shooter planned. Well, that's one theory.

I run mine at 2.18 don't want to get a DQ when I set those national records

I run mine at 2.5# with the roll trigger. I found that I couldn't really feel the roll the way I wanted below that weight.

So how do you change the trigger weight? I am not familiar with this stuff

VolScorpion wrote:So how do you change the trigger weight?  I am not familiar with this stuff

If you aren't familiar with it then your Match gun is not what you should learn on. Learn on something else. Weight has to do with the sear spring, some of it is hammer spring, and then there's sear and hammer.

He is right that you should not learn new things on your main pistol.  However, adjusting trigger weight is a basic skill that you should learn how to do, but you need to learn to do it SAFELY.  Many folks would not tell you how to do this because they don't want you to hurt yourself.  I will tell you how I do a basic adjustment because I don't want you to get hurt when you try do it yourself anyway.

What follows is general information, not gunsmithing instructions.  Get a gunsmith to show you this stuff.  Get a gunsmith to fix this for you, as they will properly and fully test all the conditions of the gun and can find problems that my information will not cover.  You have been warned!

In the most basic terms, you can adjust your trigger weight by moving the fingers on your sear spring.  Adjust the finger on the back of the trigger frame/disconnector and the finger on the sear.  

Tweaking the spring finger forward will increase weight and backwards to lighten it.  Grab the spring near the base of the finger and do your bending there, not at the tip of the finger, not at the wide spring base.  

Look at the relationship of you spring fingers from the side.  Bend one finger at a time, reinstall and test.  Your bend should result in the spring tip moving 1/16-1/8" in the desired direction in relationship to the other fingers.  Rebend as needed, but keep adjustments small and test it every time you install it.

You need a trigger pull gauge and optionally, a mainspring housing pin tool, as you will be pulling the MSH on and off a lot and this makes it easier.

What follows is reference information, NOT complete instructions:

-FIRST MAKE THE GUN SAFE.  Remove any ammo and magazines from the room you are working in and clear your gun.

-Remove your mainspring housing and grip safety.  Your sear spring is probably going to fall out, so reinstall it properly with a finger on back of the disco paddle and one on top of the sear leg. Then reinstall your MSH.  Always reinstall your MSH when testing after bending.

-Look at the innards of your gun while you rack it, trigger it, and engage your safety.  Watch the interactions of the parts.  There is a lot going on back there.  Trigger the gun very slowly and pay attention to the order that things interact.

-Notice that your trigger frame moves the disco and middle finger, travels a bit, THEN moves the sear.  Let's talk about that.  This is one of the most important sear spring interactions in terms of safety.  The middle finger MUST apply proper pressure or your gun will be in an unsafe condition.  How much pressure?  It will vary, some folks say it should be adjusted to half the trigger weight.  This spring finger controls how the trigger reset feels as well, more weight gives a heavier reset click.

 For most 1911 pistols, under no circumstances should the weight of this finger go below 1.5lbs.  YOUR pistol may need higher weights to function safely, this number is not gospel.  To test the weight, reinstall everything but the grip safety so you can watch the parts move.  Using your trigger pull gauge to engage the trigger, pull back and stop BEFORE the sear starts to move.  Is it already 1.5? Don't change a thing.  To adjust it, you will want to remove the spring and bend the finger a little at a time, reinstall, recheck, and repeat.  Make small adjustments until you teach your goal weight.

- For the sear finger, repeat the previous steps, but allow for full triggering with the pull gauge.  You are now reading combined spring weights, so subtract the middle finger weight to know what the sear finger weight is.  5lb. trigger - 2lb. middle spring finger = 3lb. sear finger.  In general, you can split the weight between the fingers, but DO NOT go less than 1lb on the sear finger. For a .22 conversion -- 2.5lb trigger pull-1.5lb middle spring finger = 1lb sear finger.

-Once you have your weights set, fully reassemble the pistol, and test the weight again, many times.  When setting your weight, aim to be over the minimum weight allowed so you will stay legal and also start a bit higher because the parts can settle in and your trigger weight can fall a bit initially.

-Check for hammer follow.  Lock the slide back, hold the gun loosely, and drop the slide on any empty chamber.  Do this a couple of times.  Did the hammer stay in place?  This is good. Did it follow the slide forward and get caught on the half cock notch? This is not good, you may need more weight on your middle sear finger, consult a gunsmith. Did it complete travel and strike the firing pin?  Holy crap! STOP. DO NOT fire this gun. Take it to a gunsmith now.  You have deeper issues.

-Spend some time with your gun now.  Dry fire and observe your hammer state and check trigger weights to make sure it is staying where you want.  Spend time getting used to the new feel before heading to the range.

-At the range, recheck again.  Load one round and fire.  Recheck hammer and trigger weights. Load two rounds. Recheck.  Be cautious.  This is not a time for screwing around with your buddies.  Proceed and treat the gun as if a stranger handed you a pistol that you have never held or seen operate safely.  

-Chances are good that you have a safe gun with a desirable trigger weight.  Keep in mind that you also could have just made your gun into an unsafe deadly accident waiting to happen.

OK, now you are able to make your gun into a very dangerous thing.  If you go in all willy nilly bending springs around, you can definitely induce hammer follow.  You can give yourself super dangerous trigger weights.  How does a fully automatic 1911 behave?  By recoiling so rapidly and with such surprise, so that you can literally shoot yourself in the head with it.

Do you get it?  You must be careful and do it right.

I would recommend you hit up youtube for some videos and gunsmithing books for more info.  I also advise that you follow none of the above information and seek a professional gunsmith.  This does not cover about a million small details that can make or break your gun and create an unsafe condition.  I have not provided this detailed information, so ALL the above info should be treated as incomplete.

If you are reading this and know what the deal with 1911 triggers is and find I have posted something in error, call me out on it immediately and I will fix it.

As far as preferred weights. I started with 2.5lbs for my .22 conversion, but keep moving it higher as time passes. It is now a match for my .45 trigger at 3.75lbs and I like it just fine. The dot settles better and my triggering improves with more weight to pull against the long roll.

Just my way of doing things....but I'd leave the one you have that WORKS right & experiment on a spare (they're cheap until you screw up).

Good idea Steve.

To clarify his post for the new guys, I pretty sure he means leaving the stock or current spring alone and test with a spare spring.

Also, do not assume that the new spring is anywhere close to your installed spring in performance. EVEN IF THEY LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME. You must check it for weight and safety.

Thanks for the info but it scares me and I am fearless.  Think I will stick with 3lb 10oz on both my guns.  They shoot fine.  I had my Mark III at 1lb 4oz when I put the VQ trigger assy in and it was hard to shoot.  You didn't want to be shooting a heavy trigger before it.  Like keep your finger off the frigger till on target.  Don

3.5

3 lbs.  If I could do it over, 3.5 lbs to match my wad gun.

Not related to the trigger, but what would the benefits be to have me nelson fitted to a frame? I don't have the funds for that now and was wondering if it was necessary

Not necessary to fit the Nelson. Should slide on to any 45 frame. Barrel, once Unit is installed, is locked down. Mine was not fitted. Slides right on. I shoot HM scores with it.

VolScorpion wrote:Not related to the trigger, but what would the benefits be to have me nelson fitted to a frame?  I don't have the funds for that now and was wondering if it was necessary

Nelsons are plug and play
Just need 19# mainspring.
Jon

2.75 lb trigger for 22, makes the transition to 3.5 lb for 45 easier then a 2 lb 22 trigger. I shoot 22, 45, 45 for 3 gun match.
Tom Ginovsky

Jon Eulette wrote:

VolScorpion wrote:Not related to the trigger, but what would the benefits be to have me nelson fitted to a frame?  I don't have the funds for that now and was wondering if it was necessary

Nelsons are plug and play
Just need 19# mainspring.
Jon

Jon what is the standard 1911 mainspring?  I am still using it?  Don

23 pounds is standard I think

Tim:H11 wrote:23 pounds is standard I think

Maybe I changed it did it come with the Nelson?  I can't believe it even works if there is that much difference and I didn't change it.  Don

With some Ammo it will work with the standard hammer spring. For reliability it's best to use a lighter hammer spring. Most use 19. I use 20. The conversion does not come with a hammer spring.

Tim:H11 wrote:With some Ammo it will work with the standard hammer spring. For reliability it's best to use a lighter hammer spring. Most use 19. I use 20. The conversion does not come with a hammer spring.

Thanks I think I have a assortment spring kit so will change it out.  I have settled on just shooting CCI SV for matches and practice now that I am getting them a a good price.  Don

Magload wrote:

Tim:H11 wrote:With some Ammo it will work with the standard hammer spring. For reliability it's best to use a lighter hammer spring. Most use 19. I use 20. The conversion does not come with a hammer spring.

Thanks I think I have a assortment spring kit so will change it out.  I have settled on just shooting CCI SV for matches and practice now that I am getting them a a good price.  Don

With CCI Standard Velocity I didn't get complete reliability until I used a lighter 8 pound recoil spring. The Nelson I think comes with a 9 pound recoil spring.

Tim:H11 wrote:

Magload wrote:

Tim:H11 wrote:With some Ammo it will work with the standard hammer spring. For reliability it's best to use a lighter hammer spring. Most use 19. I use 20. The conversion does not come with a hammer spring.

Thanks I think I have a assortment spring kit so will change it out.  I have settled on just shooting CCI SV for matches and practice now that I am getting them a a good price.  Don

With CCI Standard Velocity I didn't get complete reliability until I used a lighter 8 pound recoil spring. The Nelson I think comes with a 9 pound recoil spring.

My gun runs fine with the 9lb and a 19lb mainspring