Load for my Les Baer

First topic message reminder :

So my Les Baer finally came today, woo! Now I have to find a load for it. I already have my staring brass and my bullseye powder. Now I just need to find the best powder combination, with a zero 185gr swchp. If anyone has experience with this load. What powder weight and crimp are you using?

Hi Jon, thanks for your input regarding the lug.  My personal experience with a new Les Baer fortunately was with the hands of a highly regarded BE gunsmith, who use to contribute to the old list. We could not rack the slide by hand.  It was that tight.  He changed the recoil spring to a lower weight which will operate the pistol using a slide mounted Ultradot 4 Dot.  The original recoil spring was 15 lbs. 

He advised that it would take maybe 500 to 1,000 rounds before the slide would loosen up.  I was using 3.8gr Clays with the Star 185gr HPSWC at that time, over 10 years ago.  I'm not sure but I believe that load had more recoil than 4.0gr BE.  For many years, that load felt fairly soft and no problems with ejection or feeding. 

When I switched to BE powder, I started with 4.0gr of BE because that load seem to be consensus with the list.  Maybe because I was getting older, but that load started to feel hot after a few years.  I think also that the gun became slightly looser.  Thanks to recent postings from Jon Eulette, I started experimenting with different BE powder charges and recoil springs.  I was using a 11 lb spring but then tried also a 10 and 9 lb spring.  Often times, the labelled weight of a recoil spring is not the actual measured weight.  I used 3.4gr up to 3.9gr of BE. 

KBarth, leave your recoil spring alone for now and try different BE powder charges.  Load just a few rounds of 3.8 BE, 4.0 BE and 4.2 BE.  My gut feeling is that 3.8gr may not work at this time.  Most likely, 4.0gr may work "most" of the time.  Once you find the charge that works 100% of the time, then load a few rounds .1gr lower and .1gr higher.

When you find the load that works 100% of the time with comfortable recoil, keep in mind that when the temperature becomes cold, that load may or may not work with your new Les Baer.  Similarly, I've tried reduced loads with good success in mid 70's but they failed miserably in the 40's to 50's even when kept in my pockets.  Like most shooters, I've shot in temperatures ranging from high 30's up to 100+ degrees.

I'm not sure your level of expertise, but when you start testing your ammo for accuracy, I can provide some of my past experiences later.  My load now is 3.8gr BE with the Star 185gr HPSWC.  I had the misconception that anything below 4.0gr BE would not be accurate or be able to cycle the pistol reliably.  Wrong!  Good luck!

My mistake,3.8 BE with 185 lead.

I'll load at 4.0 to start with, then I can reduce it later. For my long line, I was going to do 4.5 gr of BE with a zero or nosler 185gr jhp. What's the best method to test long line loads without having a ransom rest? Pistol scope and sandbag?

That's the load that I shoot in mine.  I want to test a few more when I get the opportunity.  I tested with a sandbag and the red dot.  I'm sure I'm not getting "Ransom Rest" precision out of that method.  I did get 3" groups with that load and method though (even in 30 mph winds).  I think the gun can do better though.  So I want to try 2-3 other loads and do it on a day that the wind isn't blowing hard.  But for now, I'm confident enough that I'll get a 10 if I shoot a 10 so I'm not going to let the testing get in the way of training and shooting matches.

Your first couple of visits to the range with your new Les Baer .45 is for function testing and not so much for training.  Do not make the mistakes I've made by loading too many rounds of a particular load.  You will learn more by having a plan b and plan c with different loads.

First visit to the range, I did some breaking in with some plinking tmi loads I already had made up. First 100 rounds, no malfunctions minus the 5 or so failure to feed, which all the blame goes the the loads as I did them long ago when I first started loading. Think they were 3.5gr of 700x with 230gr tmj

Hi KBarth, any progress on your BE loads with your new LB pistol?

I have started with 3.8gr of BE with a zero 185gr swchp, good results so far, not one issue or malfunction. gun only has 280 through it

KBarth wrote:I have started with 3.8gr of BE with a zero 185gr swchp, good results so far, not one issue or malfunction.  gun only has 280 through it

Same load I am shooting for the SL in my LB.

For a Les Baer 45 Premier II, is "185gr TMJ FN, over 5.7 Bullseye powder, CCI primers, and 1.20 OAL" an acceptable reload?

Would the reloads being discussed above be much better?

5.7 gr of BE is not a BE load. Way too hot! So no its not a good load. Anything above 4.3gr is hot.
Jon

LOL 5.7 grains of BE. Remind me not to shoot next to you. I shot next to a guy last month shooting hardball and I thought that was distracting.

mikemyers wrote:For a Les Baer 45 Premier II, is "185gr TMJ FN, over 5.7 Bullseye powder, CCI primers, and 1.20 OAL" an acceptable reload?

Would the reloads being discussed above be much better?

4.7 BE is even "hot"  If I had to load to 4.7 BE to make the load accurate I'd hang it up - my wrists couldn't take it.

Mike I thought you were shooting reduce distance targets?  3.7 is where you should start!  Your goal should be to get the softest "accurate" load you can and still have the gun function.  You may have to change springs but there is tons of info out there on how to do this.

- Dave

One of my mentors who was a Distinguished 2600 shooter in the days of steel rails, pigstickers and ball ammo, told me that he found the accurate load and then made it work in his guns. He loaded short and long line loads for both he and his wife and I have written about his testing protocols before. At the age of 88 he just built a long slide for his son. The shortline load for it was 3.4 of BE with a Lyman bevel base that runs 215gr with Wheel weights. No dot but a BE steel rail on top. I think that Jon Eulette will find that load familar for Long Slides :-). 

With the dot on my gun, I can make 200's function reliably at 3.7. My long line load is a 160 with 4.3 of BE. The spring is an 11lb.

I use 3.4 BE or 3.4 700X with 185 & 200 gr lswc for short line in 5" & 6" pistols. Heavier slides (some optics) need the 200 gr to make more pressure to operate but typically both will work/function. PB with this setup is 200-18X. 
Jon

Hmmmm, another small nugget of useful information !

I recently found 3.4 gr of BE to shoot pretty good at 50 yards out my gun. So I'm using the light load for 25 yards and picking up points and I can use it at 50 and not get shook up with a hotter load.

I didn't mean to disrupt this thread.  

(I've been reloading what the the support people at Speer and Hornady suggested, bullets, powder, etc.  This is from long ago, before I knew of this forum.  I had no idea this was way too hot, although I wondered about it at times.  I told them what I wanted to do, which of their bullets I would use, and that's what they recommended.)  

I just got off the phone with Magnus Bullets.  I was very pleased with the ammo they sent me for my Model 52, and I asked what is best for my Premier II.  I'll be getting a box of 1000 of their 185 grain #801 bullets, to be loaded with 3.8 grains of Bullseye, length 1.29" to 1.30", and they recommend a 4.468 taper crimp.

Maybe this is what you guys already use?

3.8 is probably fine in FL winter and Summer. My pistol won't shoot it in the winter though and I went up to 3.9 to deal with that. A .468 may or may not be best for your gun, but you can experiment with that. I've been at .469 because that is what the previous owner of my wadgun used and it shoots well.

I no longer am concerned so much with OAL as I am with the length to the shoulder. I have a wadcutter seating die that seats on the shoulder and once set it keeps the length to the shoulder at .932-.934. That works well in my pistol. 

Good luck.

The gun comes with an 18# slide return spring.  I have a 16# spring in my gun now.  I suspect a 13# spring might be better for our purposes.  What do you guys use in a Les Baer for these light loads?

For 'jmdavis', for an RCBS press, which seating die do you use?  I thought (mistakenly?) that OAL was a critical dimension.

You can get a shoulder seating stem for virtually any die. If you plan to stick with one bullet you don't need it since you can set it and forget it. 

The one that I use is from this guy. I like it in my Dillon. Contact him for RCBS.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dillon-45-Cal-seating-Insert-/140561479203?hash=item20ba1df623&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

I think it will depend more on your particular gun. Some run lighter some run heavier in spring poundage. My gun uses a 10 pound spring and it functions with 3.4 and a dot mounted to the slide. The last shot stays locked back on the empty mag as it should but sometimes the last empty case ends up sitting on top of the mag. I just flick the gun or tilt it side ways and put it drops. Some say run as heavy as you can until it won't cycle but I'm not sure if that's correct or not. Experiment with different springs. The only job that spring has is to return the slide to battery with the next round chambered. So it doesn't need to be heavier than that nor should be too heavy to keep it from cycling.

Please check out the Announcement & Sticky topics at the top of each section.  In addition a simple search will return a tremendous number to topics related to bullets, power, primers and related loading information.

CR

mikemyers wrote:The gun comes with an 18# slide return spring.  I have a 16# spring in my gun now.  I suspect a 13# spring might be better for our purposes.  What do you guys use in a Les Baer for these light loads?

For 'jmdavis', for an RCBS press, which seating die do you use?  I thought (mistakenly?) that OAL was a critical dimension.

Jon rebarreled my LB with a frame mount using a 10#  It works fine with the Magnus 801 loads people are referencing above.

And a #801 will be 1.130 give or take a few thousand, not 1.3…..