listening to my press

I was loading a few hundred 185 gr training rounds today and half way through I heard something - even over the radio.

As I was seating the bullets, every once in a while I'd hear a "scriiiiitch" type of scraping.   I pulled a few of those rounds as it happened and lo-and-behold those rounds had lead shavings!   I started pulling the offending rounds and they were all once-fired Winchester I got from a buddy.  They had all been sized and expanded with the rest of this group of 5+ fired brass.  Because the bullets had been a bit hard to seat square, I pulled one of those bullets prior to seating it and they are .453.  My process runs better with .452 - .4525 Magnus lead bullets.

Then, when I was crimping, I'd occasionally hear a similar sound and the handle would be slightly stiffer.   Pulling those again, I found lead shavings and yes, they were the new Winchester brass.

Now I know what to listen for and pull any round that makes an odd scratching sound, which will be very useful when making match ammo.   It will be interesting to see if next loading, those Winchester cases behave differently.

Start using those Winchester casings as your training ammo. It will probably loosen them up a bit.
Measure the sidewall dimension and compare.
Winchester uses a different mixture of brass components, I received one hundred as a Fathers day gift and there is a distinct difference in cleaning and sizing as compared to Starline.

Also, when I rinsed the completed rounds, I had more brass shavings than lead shavings.


???   What might be causing that?  Is it related to what I described in my original post?

I would add more bell to the case if you have lead shaving issues. Why are you rinsing finished rounds? What are you rinsing them with? The brass shaving come from the crimping operation, my Dillon crimp die gets quite a bit of brass shaving built up inside it, I consider it normal.

+1 on more bell to the case.  Plus new brass always seems to have some brass shavings.

I always make sure I get a little One Shot mist inside some of the cases it helps putting the bell in the case go a little smoother.  I toss them in a plastic shopping bag and give then a 1-2 second blast then shake them up.
- Dave

Is Dillon crimp taper or roll? Brass buildup? Never heard of it before or have seen it. Crazy....
Jon

dronning wrote:I always make sure I get a little One Shot mist inside some of the cases it helps putting the bell in the case go a little smoother.  I toss them in a plastic shopping bag and give then a 1-2 second blast then shake them up.
- Dave

What Dave said...

New brass doesn't sqawk.  Some old brass will in my Dillon 650.  I use Dillon Case Lube spray and no more sqawks.

https://www.dillonprecision.com/dillon-case-lube-8-oz-bottle_8_8_23666.html 

Mark

There was a recent thread on here mentioning scraping/shaving on new cases.  They may need a few firing and reload cycles to deburr the case.  

I have had this issue on new Starlines, mostly getting brass shaving from the expander die.  Just need to make sure the new cases are lubed.

You may need to expand those case mouths a little more than normal the first time around to keep your lead from getting shaved.  Does your bullet setting die set from the nose or shoulder?  A shoulder setting die for LSWC helps set the bullet straight.

good suggestions and questions, thanks

1) yes using one-shot before expanding 
2) ultrasonic cleaning after expanding, so unlikely brass shavings are coming from that die
3) first time I rinsed the rounds, chose to do that due to lots of lube on nose and at edge of case, also wanted to make sure no small lead shavings existed
4) tried kerosene, but then had to hand dry all 200 rounds and didn't dissolve the wax - won't use that again
5) these are older Magnus 801 bullets that someone let me have cheap as they were stopping reloading, so belling was adjusted to newer 801 - but - how does soft lead shave brass AND leave it on the outside of the case?
6) I load in batch mode, so when I complete loading like yesterday I take cleaned primed brass and seat bullets (by the shoulder) and crimp (.467) with Redding micrometer competition dies

I'm left with the distinct gut feel it is something about one of the two die bodies,   I'll pull them apart and look.

If it is new brass it is likely the case mouth condition. There is very likely a small roundish burr left on the case from manufacturing. Rifle reloaders scrape these off with demurring tools. Since Pistol is belled, the tendency is to not chamfer and deburr. It will go away in a few reloads. The lead and brass shavings are coming from your crimp die.

Aprilian wrote:
1) yes using one-shot before expanding 
2) ultrasonic cleaning after expanding, so unlikely brass shavings are coming from that die

Now you have squeaky clean expanded brass, hit them with one-shot again before loading.
- Dave

Dave, the bullets have wax (lead) or slippery copper (jacketed) so is the lube for the seating die body and for the crimp sleeve?   I'll have to do that prior to priming them.

Aprilian wrote:Dave, the bullets have wax (lead) or slippery copper (jacketed) so is the lube for the seating die body and for the crimp sleeve?   I'll have to do that prior to priming them.

I know many that lube after priming.  Tests with filling the case with both WD40 & oil did not harm primers, so a mist of one-shot should be fine, but I still wouldn't drench them.
The lube will help with all operations including belling the case, I assume you bell the case enough before placing and seating the bullet.  The belling operation hits the inside edge of the case and you will get brass shavings from this operation too.

By the way copper isn't that slippery and if the case isn't belled enough you will ruin jacketed bullets pretty fast.
- Dave 

When you mist the cases you don't need to get lube inside the neck of every case, the lube from one case will last for several "pulls" on the press.

Thanks Dave.   I'll lube them after ultrasonic cleaning from here out.

I think I found where most of my shavings were originating - and you guys were spot-on.  I took apart both the seating die and the crimping die.  Inside the crimping die I found that some brass had embedded in the steel sleeve (causing recurring galling of the case being crimped).  I sanded it with 2000 grit, brass brushed and JB bore pasted it, which polished it up.   I then crimped an empty case and compared it to the run from yesterday.    There was quite a difference with today's crimp being very smooth and polished and yesterday's being scratched and somewhat rough.  There was also less of a marked difference between where the crimp stopped and the untouched case began.

Now the crimp die is clean, I'll follow the suggestion to use spray lube.

honestly I've had no issues with new or old Winchester 45 cases.. I load a lot of new Win stuff on my Dillon 550.. I do use the M style funnel and a shoulder seater.. Never change a thing when swapping to other brands of cases including star, other than checking the crimp

I do generally tumble them with corn cob and a bit  of Nu-finish polish.. not real big on using a case lube  inside of a case.

Aprilian wrote:I was loading a few hundred 185 gr training rounds today and half way through I heard something - even over the radio.

Hello Aprilian,

Free advice being worth exactly what you pay for it....

     ....you may want to think twice about listening to the radio while you load.  It can be quite the distraction.

Thanks.

Jim

jglenn21 wrote:I do generally tumble them with corn cob and a bit  of Nu-finish polish.. not real big on using a case lube  inside of a case. 

How do you keep the Nu-finish polish (case lube) out of the inside of the case??  (  sorry fat pitch - being facetious here)  One-Shot is really a dry lube as soon as the aerosol flashes off the dry film left behind is the lube.  Pam works too and it won't hurt the primer or powder performance.  

You are actually doing a better job of lubing the cases by tumbling with a touch of Nu-finish.
- Dave

spursnguns wrote:

Aprilian wrote:I was loading a few hundred 185 gr training rounds today and half way through I heard something - even over the radio.

Hello Aprilian,

     ....you may want to think twice about listening to the radio while you load.  It can be quite the distraction.

Jim

Thanks Jim.   

Keep in mind that I wouldn't have noticed that subtle of a clue if my attention was too distracted by the radio.   I am the kind of person who can better concentrate and think if part of my mind is occupied with music (but NOT talk radio).  Plus with my tinnitus, working with no background sound can actually be far more distracting.    

I know I am more prone to make mistakes when I am tired, so I don't load past about 5 PM, evenings are for decapping, expanding, sorting, dry firing, etc.

Everyone needs to learn their own individual distractions which raise the likelihood of making mistakes.

All good, Ian.

We need to keep safe so we're around to pass this hobby on to the next generation.

Jim

"How do you keep the Nu-finish polish out of the inside of the case??  "


I don't, I run the tumbler with the Nu-finish prior to adding cases.. the Nu-finish is already dried and distributed.. I've found it works exceedingly well with new cases to stop the hang ups. very thorough coverage.

just what I use..  I hate One Shot although it makes a fairly good release agent for bedding rifles IF you shake the can continuously.. Just me

jglenn21 wrote:I don't, I run the tumbler with the Nu-finish prior to adding cases.. the Nu-finish is already dried and distributed.. I've found it works exceedingly well with new cases to stop the hang ups. very thorough coverage.

Sorry I was picking on you a little bit in the first post - I apologize.
You said in your post "not real big on using a case lube  inside of a case. "  My point was you have Nu-finish in your media - even if "dried and distributed" you are transferring some of that lube to your cases, inside and out.  Even without nu-finish the media dust works as a lube.  It's one of the positives of dry tumbling verses wet tumbling.

- Dave
Back when I dry tumbled I used a car polish to help lube the cases too.

No problem here..


everyone has their own way of doing things.. old habits die hard

Totally agree about dry tumbling.. tried the wet deal.. it makes pretty brass but does that really help.

I do the same with the nufinish and dry tumble with walnut, but I do it after the ultrasonic cleaner.

After a couple of firing/cleaning/tumbling/reload cycles, the cases glide through the press, no lube needed, no brass or lead shaving.