Zins Grips Video

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/1/9/video-brian-zins-explains-how-to-take-your-pistol-grip-to-a-whole-new-level/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=0118

trigger control

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/1/16/don-t-jerk-it-pistol-trigger-control-tips-with-brian-zins/

I am confused about trigger finger placement. In the video he specifically talks about the difference between right and left-handed shooters on where you place the first crease (let's call it palm side).  But yet in the article he states something different.

Gunny Zins wrote:Now, where should the trigger make contact on the finger? The trigger should be centered in the first crease of the trigger finger. 

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/1/31/a-clinic-on-precision-pistol-fundamentals-part-i

Can anyone clarify what his current coaching directions are (or 12xnpc if you are still here, could you clarify?)?

all related Zins videos on SSUSA

He always talks about the trigger being in the finger crease..

Trigger finger location is different for everyone. Everyone's hand size and finger length is different. I have a large hand and long fingers. I have 1911's with short, med & long triggers and with & without trigger shoes. I shoot them all differently. But I know my guns! I dry fire a lot and know exactly where to place my finger on each gun. Find what works for you. Only through dry practice and then live fire will you be able to really know what works for you.
Jon

But does the crease location allow a straight back pull.  There is so much to the grip, but the bottom line is straight back on the front strap, straight forward on the rear, straight back on the trigger, aligned with the eye without forcing the position, firm enough to resettle the same on recovery each shot, comfort, etc.......

I set my grip to be firm, aligned, etc and then the trigger finger position is tested with pumping.

I want to clear up one thing I learned from my Zins clinic that folks may not understand.  He teaches you how HE shoots.  He does not teach you how YOU shoot, unless you are doing it wrong and he will show you that!

Of course, he has some great things to teach and the clinic was a great experience.  When you get home it will ruin your shooting as you try it all out.  After a few months you will find out how to integrate and hybridize what works and what doesn't.

Here is my note on finger placement from the clinic on a 1911 with no trigger shoe: Place the crease of the first finger joint against the right front edge of the trigger.

Keep in mind, this is HIS location.  It may not be yours.

Definitely not on the pad, that is a no-no.  It's too squishy.

I appreciate Zins videos.  He has a no-nonsense approach that inspires confidence.  I also agree that all this requires some 'tweaking' for each individual.  However, some of the fundamentals, such as the sights should align with the eye upon raising the pistol, and trigger placement consistency is critical and part of the grip are universal.  Speaking for myself, trigger control is the most important aspect of my shooting.

I've been working on this "Zins Grip" while dry firing the past few days. Training this morning with my .32 wadcutter. First 50 foot target (picture attached) is the result. To some of you reading this, my target is average at best. For me, it's outstanding. I do believe there's something to this grip. Trying again tomorrow, we shall see.

I have not watched this video, but I attended a Zins-Moody clinic in 2011. Brian and Andy went around the room and helped each student with their grip. Here's what I got out of it. When I extended my arm, the sights should align with my eye. If they didn't, rotate the gun slightly in my grip. When the grip is correct, the gun returns to the same spot after recoil. There should be no wrist adjustment to make the sights line up with the eye. If the sights aren't lined up on the target, that's ok. I can change that by moving my feet.  My grip might not be the same as yours, but the results should be the same.

For those who are looking for a website:

http://www.pointblankrange.com/brian-zins-bullseye-clinic/

Is there a benefit for a raw beginner or should one wait until some skill has developed?

Unlearning bad habits takes much more effort than learning good ones.  I basically 'taught myself' how to shoot pistol with practice and reading the NRA translation of "Competitive Shooting" by Yur'yev.  While I can't say that was a source of bad habits, it's a step removed from videos, which are further removed from hands-on interaction.  It's very similar to: tell me-I'll forget;show me-I'll remember; involve me-I'll understand.

third in the series

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/1/30/video-precision-pistol-tips-part-3-brian-zins-on-the-relationship-between-aiming-and-trigger-control/

Mike38 wrote:I've been working on this "Zins Grip" while dry firing the past few days. Training this morning with my .32 wadcutter. First 50 foot target (picture attached) is the result. To some of you reading this, my target is average at best. For me, it's outstanding. I do believe there's something to this grip. Trying again tomorrow, we shall see.

Glad you shot well. If I had to guess on your low shots they broke later? In otherwords you held too long and broke the shots? I commonly see targets like this when watching other shooters and the low shots are the result of not breaking shots sooner and arm fatigues and pistol starts to lower as shot breaks. I recommend trying to break shots sooner and see if your low shots go away.
Jon

Jon Eulette wrote:

Mike38 wrote:I've been working on this "Zins Grip" while dry firing the past few days. Training this morning with my .32 wadcutter. First 50 foot target (picture attached) is the result. To some of you reading this, my target is average at best. For me, it's outstanding. I do believe there's something to this grip. Trying again tomorrow, we shall see.

Glad you shot well. If I had to guess on your low shots they broke later? In otherwords you held too long and broke the shots? I commonly see targets like this when watching other shooters and the low shots are the result of not breaking shots sooner and arm fatigues and pistol starts to lower as shot breaks. I recommend trying to break shots sooner and see if your low shots go away.
Jon

You are correct, and thanks for the advise.

4th video
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/2/6/video-precision-pistol-tips-part-4-brian-zins-on-how-to-improve-pistol-red-dot-aiming

...And part 5.

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/2/12/video-precision-pistol-tips-part-5-brian-zins-on-how-to-handle-anticipation

last in the series I believe

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/3/7/how-to-develop-a-shot-process-in-bullseye-pistol-with-brian-zins/

More on grips:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.airforceshooting.org/GripFitting.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiMy8mgzozaAhWE7lMKHWOJAp4QFjAKegQIGBAB&usg=AOvVaw26-eFb1AP-qUfyw4xFF1AQ

As for thumb position on the grip, somebody smarter than me says:
"The key issue is whether the thumb applies any sideways (off-axis) pressure on the grip. If it does, it's a variable that will tend to push your shots around. The most consistent pressure you can apply is ZERO, so the best thing is not to have it touching the pistol in the first place. If you do that, the silly thumb rest on the grip is irrelevant."

Thumb pressure works both ways for different people. I find that firm thumb pressure works for me in my old age while in my 30s I never had any  thumb pressure..

Whatever works

i have a thumb so i use it.

The thumb is like the meat portion at the base of the palm.  It is used to react the forces from the grip and recoil of the pistol.  The key here is to be able to grip with the remaining three fingers and not move anything but the trigger finger.

[quote="jglenn21"]Thumb pressure works both ways for different people. I find that firm thumb pressure works for me in my old age while in my 30s I never had any  thumb pressure..

When I was young no thumb pressure. Older now and absolutely need it. Might've shot better using thumb pressure when younger. Thumb has less effect on poor shots than thumb heel and fingers. Gotta grip it firm and consistently. Use your thumb.
Jon

Just right position and pressure between my thump ham and ring finger seems to be a key to my gripping solidly.