The intolerable ripoff that UPS has become

Well I learned something today and thought I would pass it on. Normally when I ship a pistol I try to use USPS ffl-to-ffl because they don't have the anti-gun policy of having to be overnighted. I have not used UPS for many years because of their policy. I sold a pistol to a guy that wanted it shipped via UPS due to his not liking USPS. I told him it would cost a bit more. 
I was absolutely shocked at the price, especially since I haven't used them for so long. From Utah to Michigan was $190 for a 9 pound box. I was speechless and he was too when I told him. He refused to pay that so I went back inside and voided the sale and got it back. Went to USPS and shipped it for $63, two days. Which is still more than I am used to but it was because of the size of the box being shipped and several thousands of dollars worth of insurance. The insurance almost doubled the cost but he insisted.
 When using ffl-to-ffl there is no reason to use anything but USPS. Even if your ffl charges you a fee to handle, most do, at least the money isn't feeding a discriminatory company like UPS or FedEX. Try and support those who support us, that is the name of game anymore. 

rant off....

I fear it will get worse...

I just sent a pistol FFL to FFL from my local gun store.  They try to ship USPS when ever they can. Cost was $77 with insurance, 2day and $35 of that was their handling charges. I'm sure UPS would have been double that.

UPS is getting to be like Health Care because companies like Amazon have negotiated such low rates that the common joe pays way above actual cost.   One of the most interesting thing that I have found is that by using the App for USPS, I can save around 10% from walking into my post office!

I used to sell things with fixed shipping costs, I can't afford to do that any more unless it fits in a flat rate box.
Flat rate packages with included insurance are still a relatively good deal.

I have used this outfit several times and have had real good service from them. 

https://www.shipmygun.com/go/

print out shipping label and drop it off at any FedEx store and it's done.  Last long gun cost me $29 and last handgun cost me $32.

Virgil

Greetings,

Play with the USPS Shipping Calculator.

High dollar items are often shipped cheaper via Registered Mail.

With Registered Mail there are some things you have to do for acceptance. Mostly, applying paper security tape on all box seams.

Best part, is that Registered Mail is signed for by each person that touches the package. It also has to be locked in the Post Office safe when not attended.

Cheers,

Dave

My experiences with the USPS at a small FL community,  have been quite negative.
Item 1. For security reasons I get all my mail delivered to a PO Box at the local Post office. Whenever the item is too large to fit my box, a Postal employee places it in a larger locked box the key of which is then placed in my smaller box.
If the employee happens to place the key in the wrong number box, two things can happen. One, the owner of the other box either returns the key and the cycle restarts or two, he/she absconds with your box. 
The latter has happened to me twice during the last year and both times the response was to contact the sender who off course has listed your shipment as delivered and who in turn suggests to talk to the Postmaster.

Item 2. Last year I shipped by  USPS a medium size box to Rock River Arms. It was a USPS white hard box packaged and taped carefully twice, once by myself with security tape and once by the Postal employee in Postal tape. It received all the registered/return receipt options and a $2,000 insurance. 

A few days later the recipient called me to advise that the box had been delivered with one side opened and the contents missing. They sent me a photo of the box and suggested that I contact the USPS. 

A year later all the USPS has done is to send me three generic Emails advising of missing elements in my claim process. It appears that they want proof positive that the subject item of the claim was indeed inside the box and they are not satisfied with the written proof of purchase and a notarized statement by a third party who observed me throughout the process of the packaging and during the delivery at the Post Office.
No other claim options remain.

Regardless of cost I do all my shipping with FedEx since then.

I've had fairly good experiences with UPS.  They have a two day delivery service that dealers can use which was ~ $68.00 as of 7/17.  I needed to return one pistol and when I contacted the UPS store, the person there told me it could only be shipped overnight and I needed proof that it was being sent to a FFL dealer. 

After carefully reading the UPS website requirements, since non of this is law - only company policy, it seemed I could send the pistol since it was being returned.  I say this is company policy since I needed to return a pistol to Ruger and all that was involved was printing off their label, affixing it to the box, and dropping the box off at a FedEx location.  I have a UPS account, so I created a label (that was non-descriptive of the address, i.e. no-gun or arms, weapons, etc) for two day shipping with signature, tracking, and insurance then mailed it at a UPS drop off location for ~ $65.00. 

Maybe that was forbidden, and if the gun got lost I would have had a hard time getting any recourse through insurance, but other than spend $99 via FedEx or about the same via UPS (with the additional paperwork) that was my only choice since shipping via the USPS is prohibited for an individual.  However, I was a bit disappointed in UPS with their ambiguity in policy when talking with the UPS person and what they state on the web.  I'll look into the www.shipmygun.com service in the future.

My UPS experience was much better than others appear to be describing.  When I took a gun to a UPS facility to send it to Dave Salyer, I was expecting overnight high dollar service.  OTOH, I was met by an individual who explained to me that it really only needed to be continually tracked, signed for and kept secure.  He came up with a very reasonable cost, much lower than my expectations and off it went.  I think it was less than $30 and two-day.  This was a few years ago.

I suspect that shipping & mail service will continue to deteriorate in general. I have had my own share of issues with USPS & UPS over the last several months. It is no longer safe to mail anything from my mail box to out going for delivery. I'm almost afraid to order anything that comes to my house. Simply unbelievable.

Thanks for the alternative methods. I will talk my dealer and see if he is aware of some of these.

Stan, it seems they make the "rules" ambiguous so that they can interpret then as they see fit.

i Amati wrote:My experiences with the USPS at a small FL community,  have been quite negative.
Item 1. For security reasons I get all my mail delivered to a PO Box at the local Post office. Whenever the item is too large to fit my box, a Postal employee places it in a larger locked box the key of which is then placed in my smaller box.
If the employee happens to place the key in the wrong number box, two things can happen. One, the owner of the other box either returns the key and the cycle restarts or two, he/she absconds with your box. 
The latter has happened to me twice during the last year and both times the response was to contact the sender who off course has listed your shipment as delivered and who in turn suggests to talk to the Postmaster.

Item 2. Last year I shipped by  USPS a medium size box to Rock River Arms. It was a USPS white hard box packaged and taped carefully twice, once by myself with security tape and once by the Postal employee in Postal tape. It received all the registered/return receipt options and a $2,000 insurance. 

A few days later the recipient called me to advise that the box had been delivered with one side opened and the contents missing. They sent me a photo of the box and suggested that I contact the USPS. 

A year later all the USPS has done is to send me three generic Emails advising of missing elements in my claim process. It appears that they want proof positive that the subject item of the claim was indeed inside the box and they are not satisfied with the written proof of purchase and a notarized statement by a third party who observed me throughout the process of the packaging and during the delivery at the Post Office.
No other claim options remain.

Regardless of cost I do all my shipping with FedEx since then.

I doubt you sent it registered. If you had, every employee who handled it at each stop would’ve had to sign for it. It would’ve been a simple matter to find those responsible employees. Registered mail items are also supposed to be kept separate in a locked container while in transit. IIRC, one of the few ways the federal government permits classified material up to Secret to be sent.

Not to get political, but I have every expectation that the removal of handguns from the USPS system was initiated in the Clinton Administration.  I also expect anti-handgun legislators participated in that change.  The USPS could use the extra revenue, and it's not like they won't ship firearms - just not handguns.  Why should handguns be treated any differently by the US Federal Post Office?

I would be inclined to donate to the NRA ILA provided they had a line item to restore the USPS shipment of handguns.  More competition is better for the consumer.  Admittedly, some may not like using the USPS.

Stan, USPS will ship pistols via priority mail but just from FFL to FFL. Pretty ridiculous. I mean if  you're going to break the law and ship a firearm directly to a person (non ffl) then you're already breaking the law and likely not telling them the true contents of the package. Adding the requirement for you to be an FFL to ship just adds an unnecessary step in the process.

I ship and receiver several packages a week, and fine UPS to be excellent. I strongly dislike FedEx because where I live they cannot specify a delivery time slot other than all day. Their website implies they do this, but not where I live (southern California). For Brownell's and some others I specifically request UPS. 

I suspect that with all that is going on with firearms in this country that shipping them will not ever get easier.

To elaborate on my experience a bit more, the gun shop where I send the pistol actually recommended I remove the slide and send the gun back to them via USPS marked as 'gun parts'.  The FFL dealer was trying to be helpful.   One local gun shop I called was cordial, said they had no clue, but would not ship back the gun.  Another, that I tend to do more business would not ship back the gun. 

I did not want the FBI breaking down my door and shooting me or have the ATF attempt such an act, so I went to the ATF website to see what is listed as the law for shipping firearms (although, I am certainly no lawyer).  Shipping between individuals is prohibited.  Shipping between an individual and a manufacturer is allowed, along with shipping a gun for repair to a licensed FFL gunsmith.  Shipping a gun back to a FFL dealer I interpreted to be acceptable for an individual. 

None of the above is acceptable by the USPS for handguns for individuals -and it is listed on the ATF website that handguns may not be shipped via the USPS.  So that is an ATF regulation.  For long guns, it's all good with the USPS.  When I made my shipment via UPS back to the FFL dealer, I declared nothing on the shipping document or paperwork.

Edit: here is a FAQ published by the ATF which has answers to common questions, including shipping a handgun: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0501-firearms-top-10-qaspdf/download

it is all regional

FedEx suks in this area, UPS is usually good, and USPS is quite good,

I have customers in other areas that have more issues with USPS than FedEx etc etc,

re the claim, I shipped a flat rate box loaded with boxes of bullets to a guy in KS,
he got the box, some foam/bubble wrap, and that was it,
different tape than what I had used,

he did not want insurance, and I marked it so he go the $50  minimum (free) for using priority,

all he had to do was start the claim,  I got a call from an inspector, and told them what I had shipped etc, and he got his money (well, $50)

took maybe 3 weeks and it was done,
meanwhile we guess some clerk dropped the box, swept up the bullets and boxes , and tossed, or put them in whatever they have for unclaimed stuff,


as an FFL, I ship 98% USPS with out any issues,
being on the east coast, I tend to check UPS to see if the rates for ground are cheaper than priority,
if it is a significant difference I'll offer that as an option,


one thing that gets me, not to go off on too much of a tangent, it the amount of customers I have  had lately that want to complain about shipping cost, 
when I tell them I have no control over either option (USPS UPS FedEx) they still expect me to lower a price to cover shipping or do free shipping,
same folks will say 'well I only paid $$$ to get something else shipped from over there'

I've actually had to send some folks links to the online calculator for the carriers and show them where they can find my zip and package weight on the listing,,,