Pardini 32 ACP T&B bullets. .313 or.314?

Just received my Pardini 32ACP conversion, along with 500 new Starline brass and some T&B billets sized to .313.  I have loaded and fired an initial 25, all fed perfect, and shooting offhand seemed  accurate at 25Y.

I notice from the T&B web site than his "standard Pardini" bullet is now .314, but can be sized to .313?  I have read the long thread on TT, and it seems folks have had good luck with both, however, that thread is very long, and covers over three years of posts.

So my question is, have any of you tested these at 50, and is one size more accurate than the other (in a Pardini)?  My initial loads were with 1.6 VV310, I am currently loading some at 1.4 for the SL to see if they feed ok.

The Pardini barrels generally slug .314, which is why Travis offers them at .314.  The .313's are more likely to cause leading.  Otherwise you will probably have to test at 50 yds to tell the difference.

The most accurate bullet in this gun is usually the 60gr XTP, which is true in mine.  But the "why" is a mystery since those bullets mic .311.  I use the XTP's with 2.3gr Titegroup at 50 yds and the T&B's with 1.8gr N310 at the short line.  These were based on 50 yd Ransom Rest tests.

Greetings Dr. Don,

Hopefully you saved the test targets and can post them on the Forum.

A picture is worth a thousand X's, or something like that.

Cheers,

Dave

fc60 wrote:Greetings Dr. Don,

Hopefully you saved the test targets and can post them on the Forum.

A picture is worth a thousand X's, or something like that.

Cheers,

Dave

I hear somebody is trying out 85xtp in 32acp

Thx Dr Don.  

I was of the impression that the "sweet spot" for the T&Bs was a velocity of around 800fps? ("I read it on the internet"..lol)

I just returned from the range, and with 1.55 gr of VV310 and a .313 T&B bullet, the average velocity was 874.  With 1.4 VV310, the ave velocity was 802.

Both fed perfectly. 

Did you try lighter loads with the TB bullets?

Greetings,

Preliminary test results for the 85XTP in a factory Pardini 32 ACP barrel at 50 yards.

Very little load data to be found. Only Accurate listed any loads with the 85 grain XTP bullet.

Not sure what the 32AXP is.

Do Not Load This For Your Pardini!!! The overall length to too long. I shortened my next test batch and I expect higher pressures/velocities.

More testing this Sunday.

Edit below for clarification....

Forgot to mention that the barrel is mounted in a test fixture.

No, I do not, nor ever have, owned a Pardini 32ACP. I just happen to have a couple of factory barrels, a barrel tester, and, apparently, too much time on my hands.



Cheers,

Dave

Hey Dave!

Did you fire the 85's offhand? How was recoil compared to the 62's or 60's?

Thanks!

Dave

Dave asked if I had any photos, so here are several I kept.  The first shows a group with 2.3gr Titegroup and the 60gr XTP.  First shot was near the paper edge so I adjusted the Ransom Rest and shot a group of 9.  The other photo of this load is a 10 shot group.  The third photo is with the .314 T&B 60gr SWC and 1.8gr N310.

I used a Ransom Rest and Andrew Berryhill's grip insert for the Pardini.  It is a 3D printed plastic block that screws to the Pardini like a grip would and mounts on the Ransom Rest as a normal insert would.  It seems to work pretty well.

I should note that I have not yet chronographed these loads, but I did try a range of loads with these powders and with Bullseye.  The results showed the accuracy to decline pretty rapidly with a change in powder weight of only a couple of tenths.

Greg, I tried 1.6gr of N310 with the T&B bullet and the groups opened up to 5-6", which discouraged me from going down any further.

Greetings Dr. Don,

Many thanks for the images.

Your efforts are paralleling mine.

The faster the bullet travels the smaller the group.

My concern is that the faster velocity may be a bit much for the pistol causing accelerated wear.

How does the recoil of the hand loads compare to the Hornady 60XTP commercial ammo?

Your results with the cast bullets are very good, especially fired from a Random Rest!!!

My testing today was so dismal, I was ready to pack in the 32ACP program. I will load some more based on your data to see if I can repeat the results.

Cheers,

Dave

Dave,

The 2.3gr Titegroup loads do not feel as harsh as the factory Hornadys to my hand.  The Hornady factory load chronographed about 940 out of my 4.5" Pardini.  An earlier load I tried using 2.1gr Bullseye chronographed 915fps.  So I expect the 2.3gr Titegroup load to run about 950-970fps, but that is all speculation until I get it tested.

Here is an interesting data point for your "faster is tighter" theory.  I bought a box of Fiochi factory loads using the 60XTP.  They were seated too long for the Pardini mags, so I re-seated them to .895.  I know that is risky and would not recommend it to others, but I saw no pressure signs so I shot a group with it.  This was before I got my Ransom insert for the Pardini, so it was over sandbags.  It chronographed 1177fps and shot about a half inch tighter than the factory Hornady I tested the same day.

Those of us who fool with barrels are probably thinking a 10 or 12 twist barrel for the Pardini would be pretty neat, but the shroud makes it really difficult.

Have you tried using Bullseye with T&B bullets instead of N310? I assume the charge should be the same, 1.8 - 1.9gr?
I'm trying to avoid dealing with different powders, since I load several different calibers.

Javaduke,
I shot a couple of groups with 1.9gr Bullseye and the T&B 60gr bullets.  They did not group well (4"-6" at 50 yds).  I did, however, get some very decent groups with 2.0-2.1gr Bullseye using the XTP's.  I settled on the Titegroup load for the XTP's because it was a little tighter than the Bullseye load.  I also tried Titegroup with the T&B's and got mixed results with 1.7gr, i.e. a couple of good groups and a couple that were only fair.

Dr.Don wrote:Javaduke,
I shot a couple of groups with 1.9gr Bullseye and the T&B 60gr bullets.  They did not group well (4"-6" at 50 yds).  I did, however, get some very decent groups with 2.0-2.1gr Bullseye using the XTP's.  I settled on the Titegroup load for the XTP's because it was a little tighter than the Bullseye load.  I also tried Titegroup with the T&B's and got mixed results with 1.7gr, i.e. a couple of good groups and a couple that were only fair.

Hm, interesting, I always thought N310 and BE have a similar burn rate, so I'm surprised there's such dramatic difference in group size. Guess I'll try to find some N310 then...

Lots of variables here, and every gun is a little different.  Try the Bullseye since you have it on hand.

javaduke wrote:

Dr.Don wrote:Javaduke,
I shot a couple of groups with 1.9gr Bullseye and the T&B 60gr bullets.  They did not group well (4"-6" at 50 yds).  I did, however, get some very decent groups with 2.0-2.1gr Bullseye using the XTP's.  I settled on the Titegroup load for the XTP's because it was a little tighter than the Bullseye load.  I also tried Titegroup with the T&B's and got mixed results with 1.7gr, i.e. a couple of good groups and a couple that were only fair.

Hm, interesting, I always thought N310 and BE have a similar burn rate, so I'm surprised there's such dramatic difference in group size. Guess I'll try to find some N310 then...

“The burn rate charts are educated guesses, speculative.  They are not arrived at by actual testing.  To be the result of actual testing, this means that each powder would have to be tested in exactly the same application.  This is impossible to do in cartridge/test barrel applications.  There is only one way that I know of to do this and that is by what is known as a closed bomb test.  I doubt very seriously if anyone is going to the expense and trouble to conduct such a test for all the powders on the market.  Anyone who comes up with a burn rate chart is likely consulting existing charts and then adding more powders or changing theirs a little bit just so it won't look exactly the same.” - BEA

The guy knows a thing or two about powder manufacturing.....and shooting as well.

I just did some very preliminary testing at 50 yards, we have a match this Sunday, and I wanted to get some idea of sight adjustments for the LL, and my local range once goes to 25y. My bench rest ability generally sucks, but I don’t have inserts for my RR.  

With 1.8g of 310, Hornady XTPs, I got 5 group at 2.02”, which I was very happy with. Only a minor sight adjustment was required from my target load of 1.4g 310 with T&B bullets.

Then, just for curiosity, I tried the targets loads. 5 shot group was .218”. Very pleasant surprise, definitely need to see if I can locate some RR inserts. These tests were in my SP20, with a .312 Dave Wilson barrel. The T&B bullets are.312”. 

If only I could do my part.

ransom sells inserts for pardini big $$$

Thx Chris, but I was shooting my Hammerli SP20.  Ransom Rest company doesn't list inserts for it, but I've got an email into the guy who makes the 3d grips, I understand he makes RR inserts as well).

If that fails, I bet Jon can make me one:D

Andrew at Precision Target Grips makes a Pardini insert for the Ransom Rest that I like a lot. It screws to your frame in place of the grip.

could also get a sams  ransom rest adapter. allows you to shoot guns by griping the front of the barrel worth for most euro guns

Andrew at Precision Grips just responded that he didn’t make them for the SP20. Jon made me a barrel type insert for my Matchgun, Thx for the ideas.