Not quite "bullseye competition", but maybe it could be....

My brother sent me this YouTube video.  It took me three times watching it, the last time in slow motion, for me to figure out what was going on.  What I was thinking while watching it - what a cool way to practice bullseye, having a small post with the "targets" that flip right or left, and having to hit each one so they point towards the other guy, before he can do it to you.  

If this thread is inappropriate here, it can be deleted.  It's not a bullseye competition, but it looks like a wonderful way to train for bullseye.  It's also exciting to watch, which would obviously attract spectators and especially viewers.  Just a few thoughts.....

Sorry but a dueling tree is NOT a good way to train for Bullseye because it will promote bad habits (slapping the trigger) but training for Bullseye can make you a good dueler.  The object is to get all of your targets to the other side, then you win.  When 2 equally skilled shooters compete usually a slight hesitation or one miss and you loose.
- Dave

Entirely different skill sets. Lots of misses. One miss in bullseye will knock you out of contention. If you want to shoot that type of competition, go for it. It just has little to do with Bullseye and never will. I'm with dronning. I started off shooting bullseye and stayed with it for decades. I did try other pistol sports and found that the basic marksmanship skills I ingrained in bullseye pistol shooting served me very well in those other disciplines, i.e. PPC, NRA Hunters Pistol, IHMSA  (metallic silhouette), Steel Challenge, IPSC, NRA Action Pistol, Int. Air Pistol, Int. Free Pistol and even long gun competitions. It doesn't work the other way around. I did have to learn drawing and reloading, among other skills.

BE Mike wrote:Entirely different skill sets. Lots of misses. One miss in bullseye will knock you out of contention. If you want to shoot that type of competition, go for it. It just has little to do with Bullseye and never will. I'm with dronning. I started off shooting bullseye and stayed with it for decades. I did try other pistol sports and found that the basic marksmanship skills I ingrained in bullseye pistol shooting served me very well in those other disciplines, i.e. PPC, NRA Hunters Pistol, IHMSA  (metallic silhouette), Steel Challenge, IPSC, NRA Action Pistol, Int. Air Pistol, Int. Free Pistol and even long gun competitions. It doesn't work the other way around. I did have to learn drawing and reloading, among other skills.

+10000.....

Set up a tree at 25 yards with “targets” the size of the black at 25.  Shoot them to get them all on one side...one handed in 10 seconds.  But this is no different than using a regular center so there’s not a lot of point.

My "point" was the last sentence I wrote.

In the 1970's, when I started shooting, I would go to one of two public ranges, or to the Washtenaw County Sportsman's Club that I became a member of, in order to shoot at their range.  I guess I was in my 20's, as were many of the people shooting there.  When I went to the Tamiami Shooting Range in Florida, the people shooting were mostly younger.  I was oblivious to it, but I think Bullseye Shooting, and Silhouette Shooting were big things back then.  

Now, when I go to my range, there's hardly anyone there who I think of as "young", unless someone brings their son or daughter.  Everyone, me included, seems "old".  

I think this forum collects people's birth date as part of the sign up process.  It would be useful to know how many young people are getting involved here.  For those of you who are already involved in Bullseye, things are fine - but if new people don't come along to replace those who are leaving, what will the future be like?  How many people are signed up in this forum?  How many are under 25?


Brings me back to the original thought behind this thread.  Something like what those guys were doing might attract new people, and get them involved.  Once they do get involved, maybe they'll want to also get involved in the real thing.  

(It also seems to me that several of you guys would do fine in this competition, not shooting as quickly as others, but with much greater accuracy, making every shot count.  )

mikemyers wrote:(It also seems to me that several of you guys would do fine in this competition, not shooting as quickly as others, but with much greater accuracy, making every shot count.  )

Mike, "not shooting as quickly" would be a bad assumption - just saying.

mikemyers wrote:My "point" was the last sentence I wrote.

In the 1970's, when I started shooting, I would go to one of two public ranges, or to the Washtenaw County Sportsman's Club that I became a member of, in order to shoot at their range.  I guess I was in my 20's, as were many of the people shooting there.  When I went to the Tamiami Shooting Range in Florida, the people shooting were mostly younger.  I was oblivious to it, but I think Bullseye Shooting, and Silhouette Shooting were big things back then.  

Now, when I go to my range, there's hardly anyone there who I think of as "young", unless someone brings their son or daughter.  Everyone, me included, seems "old".  

I think this forum collects people's birth date as part of the sign up process.  It would be useful to know how many young people are getting involved here.  For those of you who are already involved in Bullseye, things are fine - but if new people don't come along to replace those who are leaving, what will the future be like?  How many people are signed up in this forum?  How many are under 25?


Brings me back to the original thought behind this thread.  Something like what those guys were doing might attract new people, and get them involved.  Once they do get involved, maybe they'll want to also get involved in the real thing.  

(It also seems to me that several of you guys would do fine in this competition, not shooting as quickly as others, but with much greater accuracy, making every shot count.  )

Besides the difficulty of the sport and therefore time, effort and expense required, there are other factors keeping younger people away from bullseye. When I started in 1971, I was busy trying to get an education while holding our small family together. Later the demands my job required, kept me from the sport. I wasn't able to really able to start to dedicate the necessary effort and expense until I was in my 30's. I really started trying to excel in the sport when I was in my 40's. Some folks get started by someone or some entity providing them the equipment and expertise, but not many. Our society has changed significantly also. More and more young people are not interested in any outdoor competition or even direct interactions with other people. Fewer still are interested in the shooting sports or any activity involving firearms, as they've been conditioned to find them socially unacceptable. So, I say that it is not a simple problem and requires more than a simple solution. One of the best ways to increase participation, IMHO, is by one-on-one introduction to the sport and encouragement. How many matches have you participated in? Have you introduced anyone to the sport?

+1

A local club that I shoot at for monthly matches is lucky to pull in 7 shooters. I like the fellows, and am pretty young at double nickels myself, and so I don't mind going and trying to keep the sport alive. Nevertheless, there isn't anyone in my orbit that would enjoy the sport at all, and I honestly can't say I blame them. All the guys that work for me are much more interested in shooting deer, which is great, but zero interest in anything with one hand, precision, etc. 

Maybe it's just me, but there is always going to be a smaller audience for drag racing than nascar. I don't know what "saving" the sport would entail, but am pretty sure we aren't going to get there from the run and gun, play army type. Robbie Leathem even says it himself- his dad was a BE shooter I think- he likes to go to a match every once in a while, but it isn't what he likes to do. If he doesn't like it, then why in the world do we think joe redneck without teeth and breathing through the mouth is going to? Or millenials? Or gen x, or ???

You are either interested in precision and accuracy or you aren't. Would love to know how to recruit such people- to work for me.

dronning wrote:

mikemyers wrote:(It also seems to me that several of you guys would do fine in this competition, not shooting as quickly as others, but with much greater accuracy, making every shot count.  )

Mike, "not shooting as quickly" would be a bad assumption - just saying.

Hmm, here's what I was thinking - am I wrong?   It has been constantly drilled into Bullseye Shooters here that if the shot is not good, don't take it.  Start over.  I was thinking two things, first, that shooting "quickly" without following this advice would be wasting time, and not only that, it would mean more reloading of new magazines.  A bad shot in Bullseye might cost one or more points; a bad shot in that competition would be a total waste.  As they said, Frank's competitor "lost his cool", allowing Frank to go on and win.  

From my own personal experience, following advice in this forum, I know for a fact that the number of shots per minute (or however I should refer to it) is less than what it was before.  I used to see a "good shot" and grab it before it could become a "bad shot", until I learned better in this forum.  

Of course, my experience at this is negligible, so maybe I'm way off here, and bullseye shooters would/could shoot more quickly???

I like the saying "haste makes waste".  

........and from the opposite point of view, Mr. Borland, the conference moderator of the revolver forum on The High Road forums, told me that for his competitions, he only has to be "good enough", not perfect.  He had to get two hits on a target, then move on to the next.  He is so fast that I never believed he was stopping to align his sights until I played his videos in slow motion.   From that point of view, I'm totally wrong here, as Bullseye Shooters will be aiming for the middle, and someone like Frank Garcia might be aiming just enough to hit it.

....confused....

BE Mike wrote:.........Have you introduced anyone to the sport?.......

From someone I know very well, who used to shoot targets for all his life, and I tried to get him involved....    

"Going to USA was not cheap.  I certainly could afford to go, but chose not to.  I did actually impress myself with what I learned and how efficient I was getting, and it was FUN!!  Much more fun for me than standing still and aiming at a bullseye.  Mind you … I really liked doing that … but it was SO MUCH MORE FUN to have to move around, choose which targets to go after and in what order … and to do so quickly ... as if one’s life might depend on it....."


No, I haven't introduced anyone to Bullseye.  Everyone I know who is "into guns" wants a plastic gun for defense, nothing more.  Long ago, back in Michigan, I introduced lots of people, but it was easier back then.  I ought to have looked around for a Bullseye Match.  Back then, I didn't know what they even were, to have thought of looking.  I was younger and stronger then - I could have given up some other hobbies, and switched to Bullseye............

Mike,
I find it indicative of what you know about bullseye from your comment that this "looks like a wonderful way to train for bullseye."
Some of us here have 20+ years of bullseye and we've been patiently answering your questions, some over and over, yet nobody has once mentioned this technique to train. Do you think we've never seen this stuff or do you think we are holding out "the secret" from you? You think you can recruit from that group, go ahead and see what your efforts get. been there done that.
Rob Leatham is probably the best production class shooter to take up the sport and he is barely an expert shooter in bullseye. No disrepect intended because I understand that his interests are in run and gun, and getting paid to shoot, but someone of this caliber in speed shooting should be a master in bullseye if this type of training had any merit in bullseye. He is the best at what he does and just went distinguished a couple of years ago, after 25+ years of shooting. Two handed speed shooting is no training preparation from one handed 50 yard precision. But it is fun and that is why people do it.

I think either people like the challenge of bullseye and the precision shooting pistol sports....or you like hearing the instant satisfaction of knocking down steel

robert84010 wrote:Mike,
I find it indicative of what you know about bullseye from your comment that this "looks like a wonderful way to train for bullseye."
Some of us here have 20+ years of bullseye and we've been patiently answering your questions, some over and over, yet nobody has once mentioned this technique to train. Do you think we've never seen this stuff or do you think we are holding out "the secret" from you? You think you can recruit from that group, go ahead and see what your efforts get. been there done that.
Rob Leatham is probably the best production class shooter to take up the sport and he is barely an expert shooter in bullseye. No disrepect intended because I understand that his interests are in run and gun, and getting paid to shoot, but someone of this caliber in speed shooting should be a master in bullseye if this type of training had any merit in bullseye. He is the best at what he does and just went distinguished a couple of years ago, after 25+ years of shooting. Two handed speed shooting is no training preparation from one handed 50 yard precision. But it is fun and that is why people do it.

Bad wording.  I didn't mean "good".  I meant it might be fun, and get people to want to be involved in the real thing.   I guess my wording could have been better.

No, I do NOT think it is a "good technique" to get better at Bullseye.  I didn't mean to imply anything like that.  The point of this thread was how to get more participants.  I was thinking that after they get a taste, they might come back for the full meal.

robert84010 wrote:Mike,
........Some of us here have 20+ years of bullseye and we've been patiently answering your questions, some over and over.......

I know, and with very few exceptions, I try to follow the advice I've been given here.  I've read those threads multiple times, and as a result I feel I understand 85% of it, and I know for a fact I am shooting better, which is what prompted asking the questions in the first place.  

I don't feel ready to go back into those threads and ask yet more questions until I understand, and can do, 95% of the advice.  It's all there, easy to find.


What I posted in this thread was ONLY to consider one way of "tricking people into joining" once they found out what it's like, and wanted more.  

My gunsmith used to live in FL and he recruited a guy from an IDPA match that he regularly shot at, he said the guy left at the end of the .22 stage. 

Mike get better at the toughest event, bullseye, and the other stuff will fall into place.

Chris Miceli wrote:I think either people like the challenge of bullseye and the precision shooting pistol sports....or you like hearing the instant satisfaction of knocking down steel

That is part of what I meant - once people start shooting, they might get hooked ---- as I was so long ago!

robert84010 wrote:........Mike get better at the toughest event, bullseye, and the other stuff will fall into place....

I'm not sure what you mean - the only thing I'm doing is shooting at NRA B-8 targets at 25 yards, mostly with 22, but wanting to go back to 38 and 45.  The advice here was to just do 22 for a while, which I have.   That, and shooting Black Powder at the same targets, which I've wanted to do for around 40 years.  

(I did get tired after a session last week, and moved to the end of the range and aimed at the steel plates hanging 50 yards away, and ever shot hit - but it seemed boring and pointless.  Targets talk back to me, hanging steel plates just say "ding" or nothing...)

mikemyers wrote:

Chris Miceli wrote:I think either people like the challenge of bullseye and the precision shooting pistol sports....or you like hearing the instant satisfaction of knocking down steel

That is part of what I meant - once people start shooting, they might get hooked ---- as I was so long ago!

Have you ever noticed that your post count is incredibly high but you don't even shoot matches?

Is this the longest troll in the world or simple boredom? 

Hold Center!

Aufidius wrote:Have you ever noticed that your post count is incredibly high but you don't even shoot matches?.......Is this the longest troll in the world or simple boredom?......

No, I never noticed.  And true, I've only shot two matches at my local club, but never an official Bullseye Match.  Last time I looked, there was nothing near Miami, Florida.   As to the longest troll in the world, that's for you guys to decide.  As for boredom, I get to the range 4 or 5 times a week, and don't have time to get bored.


Added later - please tell me how to find my post count?  I just tried, and couldn't.
If it's too high, that's easily corrected for the future.

thanks!

mikemyers wrote:

Aufidius wrote:Have you ever noticed that your post count is incredibly high but you don't even shoot matches?.......Is this the longest troll in the world or simple boredom?......

No, I never noticed.  And true, I've only shot two matches at my local club, but never an official Bullseye Match.  Last time I looked, there was nothing near Miami, Florida.   As to the longest troll in the world, that's for you guys to decide.  As for boredom, I get to the range 4 or 5 times a week, and don't have time to get bored.

Blocked- thanks for playing!

To all: please don't feed this catfish any more.

Guys, please. Break time.

Thanks for your posts Mike.

I agree with some of the earlier posts that Precision Pistol and accuracy training is an awesome springboard into other pistol sports AND rifle shooting.

Even though I'm a Bullseye Marksmans and have been in and out of the sport for 20 years, I did do PPC around 2000,  I became Expert in two or three matches.  I was knocking at Master.  I remember one new female police officer trying to figure out how to score this civilian's target when there was only one big hole after shooting at the 15 yard line with my 1911.  I can still remember the look on her face and her asking the RO what to do.

I think the tree would be a fun way to practice precision as long as you keep your shot process.

I also think that a shoot-off between the top shooter's like international shooting would be cool too in our sport.  The rest of could sit around and cheer them on.

Chris Miceli wrote:I think either people like the challenge of bullseye and the precision shooting pistol sports....or you like hearing the instant satisfaction of knocking down steel

Nah, I like both, but for different reasons.  FWIW, if you're waiting to hear the "ding" or watch it fall instead of calling your shot and moving to the next target, you're shooting too slow.

PPC in my opinion is good cross training for bullseye. not speed shooting, plenty of time to align sights while squeezing each shot off. lots of 25 and 50 yard exposures. plus you get to use revolvers made by Jerry Keefer!