Why is 22 more accurate than 45

It seems that the best guns can shoot 1/2 inch good at 50 yards with 22, but other handgun calibers can shoot maybe 1.5 inches. Is this because it's rimfire rather than a centerfire primer? Why isn't there a larger caliber that's accurate?

The .22 has a fixed barrel. A Thompson Center is as accurate as a .22 but don't come in semi automatic.

I'll give it a stab...

1) inherent accuracy of the caliber. consistency of manufacture in the machinery that produces 22 ammo, the higher velocity (900-1100 for match 22 vs 600-800 for match .45), advanced lubricants that work well on small .22 bullets but not as well on more complex shaped .45 lead bullets.

2) most match 22's have a barrel, frame and sights that are fixed together. The slide reciprocates by itself due to the straight blowback design. Therefore, whatever groups a .22 barrel can shoot in a test fixture, it can pretty much do the same in a gun.
This design is very hard to do with a centerfire gun. Prototypes have been made (Masaki Dragon gun, NC Gas gun, etc) but it is complicated and hasn't really caught on. For most guns (like 1911) Tight lockup between frame, slide, barrel and sights is achieved through serious craftsmanship, and every firing cycle loosens it slightly.

3) This is getting into the realms of the theoretical, but it may also have to do with twist rate suitability. 1:16 for .45 may not be optimal at the 700-800fps range. Jerry saw really good results with 1:12 or 1:14 IIRC. Using barrel twist specific to bullet profile and speed for 9mm, which has 4 available options (1:10, 1:16, 1:18, 1:32) has yielded sub 1" groups for plenty of builders in different platforms. It would stand to reason that if we had access to more twist options for .45, the same would be true.

4) recoil

5) noise

For the sake of accuracy, there are number of centerfire semi-auto handguns with fixed barrels:
H&K P7 series, Walther's PPK (probably the most famous one) & P5 (barrel isn't exactly fixed, but moves very little, and only horizontally), Desert Eagle, and of course famously infamous Remington's R51, just to name few, although I must say, that I don't know a single one that runs 45 ACP.  P7M10 in 40 S&W is probably closest.
AP

They made some Walther P-38s in 45acp.

The only commonly available fixed barrel semi-auto in .45acp I can think of is a Hi-Point.  I think most will agree it's not the hot setup for bullseye.

I've seen 45's that have shot just as good a 22's in testing conditions though few and far between. I think the reality of the question is more "why do I shoot my 22 better than the 45?". I think many new shooters will assume that the 45 just in nature isn't as accurate as a 22 - in reality the 45 is just that challenging. The 22 (in my opinion guys) is easier to shoot than the 45 because it's it less grip sensitive and we're allowed to use a lighter trigger on them - which again in my opinion - I feel adds to the ease of shoot-ability of a rim fire gun. 

So to sum this up - 22's are easy, and 45's are more challenging and I think sometimes this causes shooter to think their 45 just isn't as accurate. Which can totally open up a whole mental game can of worms too. 

It's my guess that many shooters (not upper class shooters) use a load recipe that they got from another shooter that's had success with it. They don't test it. They load and shoot it. That load may not even be the one that your gun shoots the best. 

I'll leave it here.... I think I've gone a little off track but I still think a 45 can be made to shoot as accurately.

Ufffff...... we are starting from one issue related to the subject and then deviate to something else.  So, let me state the following.  I can assemble ammo for any centerfire caliber that will generate ~ 3.5 fps Standard Deviation, and shoot more accurately than rimfire........... provided we remove human factor from equation, and load is optimized for particular firearm.  So answering initial post - issue isn't with qualities embedded in particular caliber or type of ammunition, but rather why, we shooters shoot one caliber better than another.
AP

Tim:H11 wrote:I've seen 45's that have shot just as good a 22's in testing conditions though few and far between. I think the reality of the question is more "why do I shoot my 22 better than the 45?". I think many new shooters will assume that the 45 just in nature isn't as accurate as a 22 - in reality the 45 is just that challenging. The 22 (in my opinion guys) is easier to shoot than the 45 because it's it less grip sensitive and we're allowed to use a lighter trigger on them - which again in my opinion - I feel adds to the ease of shoot-ability of a rim fire gun. 

So to sum this up - 22's are easy, and 45's are more challenging and I think sometimes this causes shooter to think their 45 just isn't as accurate. Which can totally open up a whole mental game can of worms too. 

It's my guess that many shooters (not upper class shooters) use a load recipe that they got from another shooter that's had success with it. They don't test it. They load and shoot it. That load may not even be the one that your gun shoots the best. 

I'll leave it here.... I think I've gone a little off track but I still think a 45 can be made to shoot as accurately.

id like to see a 45 that does .5in 10 shot groups at 50 yards

Chris Miceli wrote:id like to see a 45 that does .5in 10 shot groups at 50 yards

I don't think that could happen even shooting out of a barrel fixture.

dronning wrote:

Chris Miceli wrote:id like to see a 45 that does .5in 10 shot groups at 50 yards

I don't think that could happen even shooting out of a barrel fixture.

I 100% agree

.22s have a small niche to 50 yards and perhaps to 100yds. At 100 yards, a centerfire rifle and perhaps some pistols are more accurate. Just like out to 10 meters, air pistols and rifles are most accurate. Undoubtedly, out to 50 yards a .22 free pistol or rifle are most accurate. As stated above, everything is optimized for them to be so.

Cheers,

Joel

For our uses in this sport let’s ignore a 1/2” 22 group - let’s just say you have a 22 and a 45 and regardless of group size they both shoot within the X ring. It’s comes down to the shooter beyond that. And honestly I could care less if my 22 shot below an 1”. Because I’m not gonna hold that tight anyway at 50 yards. All that maters to me is “is it an X gun?”.

Tim:H11 wrote:And honestly I could care less if my 22 shot below an 1”. 

I'm curious, how much more could you care less? 

Joel

Tim:H11 wrote:For our uses in this sport let’s ignore a 1/2” 22 group - let’s just say you have a 22 and a 45 and regardless of group size they both shoot within the X ring. It’s comes down to the shooter beyond that. And honestly I could care less if my 22 shot below an 1”. Because I’m not gonna hold that tight anyway at 50 yards. All that maters to me is “is it an X gun?”.

Spoken like someone who doesn’t have a 1/2 22lr. I know you jelly

1joel1 wrote:

Tim:H11 wrote:And honestly I could care less if my 22 shot below an 1”. 

I'm curious, how much more could you care less? 

Joel

I’ll put it this way, as a civilian I don’t want to spend the money on it right now. And I shoot mid 880’s with what I have and my personal best is 891 with the 22. So I’m not going to focus on improving equipment/ammunition. I’m going to keep focusing on shooting.

Back to the OP. I still say it is the pistol not the bullet. The OP was asking about RimFire vs CF. If you want to test it and have money to burn just pick up a Kimber .22 conversion. Now go shoot good/great groups with it.

LenV wrote:Back to the OP. I still say it is the pistol not the bullet. The OP was asking about RimFire vs CF. If you want to test it and have money to burn just pick up a Kimber .22 conversion. Now go shoot good/great groups with it.

Sometimes it is the bullet.  I'll repeat a long ago report of Ransom tests with an AA conversion.  All the ammo brands I tested grouped as expected.  Except one.
Eley was the best consistently grouping 1" +/-
Middle of the road ammo shot middle of the road groups.  1.5" or so.
One ammo, Green Tag, grouped 4" even 6"
Rechecking Eley to see if something had gone wrong.  It had not.
Again with Green Tag still at 4-6"

Bad lot maybe? 

???

Tim:H11 wrote:

1joel1 wrote:

Tim:H11 wrote:And honestly I could care less if my 22 shot below an 1”. 

I'm curious, how much more could you care less? 

Joel

I’ll put it this way, as a civilian I don’t want to spend the money on it right now. And I shoot mid 880’s with what I have and my personal best is 891 with the 22. So I’m not going to focus on improving equipment/ammunition. I’m going to keep focusing on shooting.

no focus is required its just a stroke of a pen.

Alex Hamilton will re-crown conversions for $45.

SmokinNJokin wrote:Alex Hamilton will re-crown conversions for $45.

KC does also.

I think, it is reasonable to discuss accuracy of the ammo, versus insisting on same size of the imprint on the target.  We need to remember that diameter of 22LR projectile is .222".  Subsequently 0.5" hole on the target represents more than 2x deviation of the diameter (it is actually more than 2 1/4 times).  I suggest applying same ratio to other calibers in order to compare accuracy.  If that is acceptable, then we are talking about 45 ACP group being just about 1.1".

Chris (and others),
Are there known guns that can put 10 rounds of 45ACP in 1.1" hole at the same distance as 22LR in 0.5"?

If there are, then answer to OP is obvious, - it is our perception that 22LR is more accurate than 45ACP, and it is solely based on the size of imprint on the target.  This is of course, IMHO, and I stand to be corrected.
AP

Greetings,

With my barrel tester, I get close to the 1" group at 50 yards.

The below images are fired with a Bar-Sto 45 ACP barrel.

Note one is WadCutter the other is full charge Hard Ball...

These groups are typical of good ammunition. Please note, not all lots shoot the same. You do need to test your ammo!!!




Cheers,

Dave

PhotoEscape wrote:I think, it is reasonable to discuss accuracy of the ammo, versus insisting on same size of the imprint on the target.  We need to remember that diameter of 22LR projectile is .222".  Subsequently 0.5" hole on the target represents more than 2x deviation of the diameter (it is actually more than 2 1/4 times).  I suggest applying same ratio to other calibers in order to compare accuracy.  If that is acceptable, then we are talking about 45 ACP group being just about 1.1".

Chris (and others),
Are there known guns that can put 10 rounds of 45ACP in 1.1" hole at the same distance as 22LR in 0.5"?

If there are, then answer to OP is obvious, - it is our perception that 22LR is more accurate than 45ACP, and it is solely based on the size of imprint on the target.  This is of course, IMHO, and I stand to be corrected.
AP

they are out there, custom made by smiths.

Thank you, Dave and Chris;
I guess, my question boils down to if you are in the agreement, that using suggested approach indeed is reasonable approach for evaluating accuracy of the ammo.  I believe, this way we can compare apple to apple, as saying goes.

AP