Curious about Zins guns

Can anyone tell me about the Gunny's bullseyes pistols? I saw his picture in Shooting Sports USA and became curious about what he uses at Perry. Optics as well as the guns.

He has used many different guns over the years. This year Cabot guns, two years ago Mountain Competition Pistols. Aim Point is the dot of choice for him. He has toyed with a Marvel Precision 22 conversion but prefers the AW 93 . The both shoot well for him but he has shot the 93 more.

Does that help?

His 1911 has a really long roll trigger. I'm pretty sure KC from KC's Customs does his triggers.

Thanks for the replies. What is an AW93? Been away from BE a long time!

http://www.champchoice.com/prod-FWB_MOD_AW93__22CAL_LR_SPORT_PISTOL__RIGHT_-3258.aspx

When i shot a match with him in 2005, while he was still active duty, his 45 looked like it came from the bottom of the river, old worn and crusty, he still won the match. There is a story about his gun, after one of the many times he won the national championship, the NRA tested his gun to make sure it was legal, it was but the funny thing is the best group it would shoot was 4inch groups @ 50 yards. So its not the gun that wins its the shooter.

DavidR wrote:4inch groups @ 50 yards. So its not the gun that wins its the shooter.

Dave;

I agree that the skill level of the shooter is very important.. But, a 4 inch gun..?? Doing the math, a 4 inch gun is going to shoot mostly 9's inside call, and mostly very wide 8's outside call.. There will be some random x's and 10's, from natural shot dispersion. That's providing it shoots a reasonably round consistant group.. But most 4 inch guns are going to throw its share of flyers.. Add in the human error, and there is no way, a 4 inch gun is going to win Perry. 96+% of the shots must be 10's to break 2600.. A 4 inch gun is not going to do it...I have some pretty big name customers, and none of them would ever go to the line with a 4 inch gun..and I doubt Brian ever did either..I know NRA weighs triggers, checks for safe operation, and equipment rule compliance.. I have never known them to RR test..

Jerry

Joe Fobes wrote:This year (2012) Cabot guns

Brian placed a Cabot build 1911 in my hands this past spring, and I was amazed at the tight tolerances of the pistol. The slide/frame fit is simply amazing and the finish and other workmanship is next to none. I think that nobody can touch it. But, I had to chuckle when he told me that the price tag was a mere $5600. When I told Jim Clark and his son about Cabot's prices, they could barely believe it.

KC Crawford did the trigger and barrel work on the Cabot gun for Brian. I was allowed to handle it in June, it has a nice long roll trigger.

Regarding the RR testing... Brian told our clinic last year that the USMC armorers RR tested his pistol after one of his national championships. In the RR the gun shot 4" groups. Brian seemed to find that hard to believe as he had cleaned some 50 yard targets at Perry. The point in telling us this info was that he's not a believer in RR testing because he was certain the pistol shot much better than that.

Steve B wrote: The point in telling us this info was that he's not a believer in RR testing because he was certain the pistol shot much better than that.

Steve;

I also agree with Brian, that RR testing can be suspect and requires excellent equipment, and a certain level of skill to be reliable.

I bet those armorers were jerking his chain...

There is another thread on the RR subject..It took me years to get a system that is repeatable and reliable...

Take care

Jerry

bullseyepistol wrote:

DavidR wrote:There is a story about his gun ...the NRA tested his gun to make sure it was legal ... 4 inch groups @ 50 yards.

David, I'm sorry, but I have to call you out on this one. That is nonsense.

1. The USMC armorers would never produce anything but a 1.5" gun or less.
   
2. The Officials only random test for trigger weight on the Master/Hi-Master relay at Camp Perry. I know, I've been tested.
   
3. That is just plain BS that the "NRA tested the accuracy" of Brian's firearm. Wouldn't happen.
   

Nonsence or not As i said, "There is a STORY about his gun," as with anything, STORIES get muddled the longer they are repeated, I agree there would be no point for the NRA to accuracy test his gun and maybe the original story was about what was stated above by SteveB and his armorers did the testing. That part of the story could have just been mixed up as it got passed down the line i don't know i just thought it was amusing story and fit this topic so I passed it on. I do personally know B. Zins did not like letting the armors mess with his gun once he got it like he wanted , he told me this in person. He also told me about having to switch ammo's from his teams hand loaded rounds to factory federal because his gun was not as accurate with it as it was the federal. This was all at Canton Pryor to Perry in 2004. As to a guns accuracy testing, testing guns will get various results based on the tester, and what ammo that is used. Ive tested plenty of 1911's that can range from 5'' groups down to 2'' all depending on the ammo used. So a 1.5'' gun is only that if you replicate what was used for its testing. You change the loads and you might find you now have a 4'' gun instead.

I can't comment on the accuracy of Brian's .45 but can tell of an experience we shared regarding ammo. It could very well have been 2004. A friend of mine, Ron Zalewski, and I bought two cases of Federal Gold Medal 185 ammo (GM45B) to use exclusively for Perry. We hadn't noticed at the time but they were different lots!
At the end of CF we met and were each complaining about having a couple of 6:00 o'clock 5s on the long line. We had similar experiences during the .45 matches.
Afterward, we were chatting with Brian who told us about having a couple of 6:00 o'clock 5s on the long line (me yes, Brian, NO). The three of concluded that we had a BAD lot of Federal ammo. I don't know what Brian did but Ron and I received a refund for that ammo!