Eley Contact Subsonic Semi-Auto Ammo

I posted a thread here a while back, about problems I was having with 22 CCI ammo.  With my Model 41 and my Nelson, ammo wasn't feeding properly, and was getting stuck in the chamber, not extracting.  I thought it was due to the hot Florida 95 degree temperatures, and the wax that is used on the ammo to prevent leading in the barrel. I described everything to CCI tech support, and they sent me a "call tag" so the ammo would be shipped back to CCI.  This was a month or so ago.  I called yesterday, and had a long phone discussion with them.  It turns out they had shot several hundred rounds, and the ammo was not defective.  The person in charge of the testing determined it was so hot that the wax was "melting", coming off the ammo, and building up in the barrel, which explains why rounds no longer dropped into the barrel freely.  They are sending me replacement ammo, but there isn't much I can do about the Florida temperature.

I had bought a brick of Eley target 22LR 40gr 1090fps ammo, which seemed to cure my problem.  At 90+ degree the,[eratires. the ammo almost felt like it had liquid oil or something on the it, and the ammo worked in both my Model 41 and in my Nelson.  So, I bought a case of the Eley ammo sold by the CMP program, which worked better than the CCI, but not as well as the "target" Eley.  So, I called the tech people at Eley, described my issues, and asked if they could help me.  Apparently the Eley ammo bought through the CMP program is not identical to the Eley "target" ammo.  

This is getting frustrating, as in the Nelson every so often a round doesn't fire.  Pulling back the hammer and firing again always works.  Larry Nelson said I need to clean the chamber, which worked for a while, but the problem came back after 50 rounds or so.  I need to test it again in my 41.

The tech person at Eley told me they have some different ammo, Eley "contact Subsonic Semi Auto ammo.  It comes in a gray box, and is designed for semi-auto pistols.  It arrived late this afternoon, so I haven't tested it yet.

  

I'm an hour and a half North of you and keep CCI SV in the trunk of my black car and have had no issues with my Marvel.

It just seems odd that practically every auto loader you own seems to have constant malfunctions.

You must just be lucky!

Have you tried any Aguila SV? Inexpensive and shoots well.

I took a friend to the range (experienced shooter) and let him shoot my P220 Sig. I was dumbfounded when it jammed on the fourth round since I have never had an issue with it. He couldn't get through five consecutive rounds without a jam and I have had no issues with it since. I could not see where he was doing anything different that I do. I've experienced the same with others at the range where they keep having issues and someone else can shoot their gun without issue.

DA/SA wrote: I was dumbfounded when it jammed on the fourth round since I have never had an issue with it. He couldn't get through five consecutive rounds without a jam and I have had no issues with it since. I could not see where he was doing anything different that I do. I've experienced the same with others at the range where they keep having issues and someone else can shoot their gun without issue.

My guess, the famous occasional limp wrist or worse, anticipation and relaxing grip.

Yeah, I must be lucky.    :-)     

I ordered a brick of Aguila SV, will try it out over the weekend or Monday.

I haven't shot my High Standard in a year or two, I guess I could try that again as well.
Thinking back on it, I had problems with it too in the summer.


Regarding limp wrist or worse, I was showing the ammo problem to someone at the range.  I put in the CCI ammo, and it had the problem.  Then I used the Eley "target" which worked fine.  Back to the CCI, and problem.  I guess somehow the CCI sends a signal to my wrist to loosen up?

Back to the grip, I can hold the gun so tightly it starts shaking, which doesn't make any difference.  As to "limp wrist", since I don't know how to make my wrist any more or less limp, I can't say much about that.  As to anticipation, this problem happened with the CCI even when I was gradually applying more and more pressure, so I didn't know when the gun was going to fire.

As I see it, since I don't know how to make my wrist any more or less "limp", occasional or otherwise, that may well be something I need to do better, but it doesn't explain why the "oily feeling" Eley Target ammo works, while the "sticky feeling" CCI doesn't.

(Larry Nelson told me that his son, Kevin, thinks there is some microscopic "particle" stuck to the chamber, which causes the wax to build up, creating the problem.  That's still plausible, as yesterday I shot 20 or 30 rounds with no problem, and once the problem started up again, it got progressively worse over time.  His answer, and Dave's, was to use a slightly larger bore brush, bend it 90 degrees so it only went in as far as the chamber, and clean the chamber thoroughly.  I did this, after getting the chamber good and wet with Kroil.  Apparently that helps, for a while.......  I just ordered a 25 caliber brush, which I'll modify so it only goes into the barrel the depth of the chamber.  Maybe that will work better for cleaning out the chamber, if Kevin is correct.)

Limp wrist comment was in response to the quoted post.  That's why it was quoted.  If you own a gun that runs perfect and someone else shoots it and has function problems then it's usually a limp wrist or loose grip causing it.
- Dave

I remember many, many years ago at the Frank J. Bickar Memorial Regional at the Canton-Mc Kinley R&P Club there was a All National Guard pistolsmith who would use a .22 reaming tool to clean out the chamber of .22 pistols, mostly High Standards. I'm pretty sure that it requires a knowledgeable steady hand to do it right and not permanently damage the chamber, but it did seem to get rid of that ring of build-up just before the rifling that is so hard to remove. As far as limp wristing goes, from your photo it doesn't appear that you have your arm fully extended. I may very well be wrong.

I was looking at that as well and there doesn't appear to be any "authority" in holding the pistol out there. It's just stuck out there.

I'd say that your elbow is 90 degrees off as well. In my opinion, the elbow joint should be horizontal, not vertical. That alone made a huge difference in my wobble, rigidity, and shooting in general. but I stand quite bladed to the target as well. I'm also 6'5" with arms like an orangutan and the gun is stuck out there nearly 40 inches, so I need all of the support I can get!

Not saying that this would fix your ammo issues, or is really related, just a general observation!

I live in Ft Meyers and shoot 3-4 days a week. Yeah I am lucky like that. I shoot CCI SV and have not had a problem so I guess I am not helping you out but I would look at something else and see if it can be fixed

If I'm doing anything incorrectly, it should be obvious to you guys in this video.  The image of me currently on this forum is one frame from that video.

I don't think I'm causing the problem, as I shoot the Eley "target" ammo the same way, and it works, but any advice is welcome!

As to my elbow, I read where locking your elbow leads to physical problems eventually - if that is true, I'm keeping my elbow close to straight, but not "locked".  I fired 10 rounds, to see how much I'm changing my stance from beginning to end.

I hope this works..........   I just uploaded the file, captured with my iPhone 10s.
I need to go on a diet!

I had trouble with a Victor once or twice and a Sharpshooter with a Conneticut Precision match barrel not ejecting empties. There were no sharp burrs and the mags were tuned but it would continue. I asked around and was told those match barrel chambers need to be clean, problem solved.
 Just last week I was having mag trouble with a couple of mags and FTF and some FTE with some ammo on my Nelson with a new dedicated Foster build. Talked to my friend Paul and he said, clean the chamber good because those match barrel chambers can be tighter, that fixed the feed and extract issues. Talked to Larry Nelson about the 2 mags not going into new frame and it was the new mag release was too high. Larry said I could replace the mag release or mod the mag, I did the mag mod, by his direction, and perfect operation now. He's the best and said Paul is absolutely right about match chambers, keep them clean.
 I find when my ammo gets warmed up where the wax melts and I use it in a warm gun, they function really well. The problems happen when the gun cools off in the air conditioned house and solidifies and I don't clean that chamber with solvent swabs and twist a modified brush in the chamber. I wouldn't let a carbon ring form in the leade either. 
 Stan

My S&W Model 41 was having a problem ejecting and once in a while double feeding.  I typically use CCI SV 22cal so I tried CCI Mini Mag and then Federal Auto Match.  Same problem once in a while with all ammo.  So I dropped a cartridge in the barrel and it would go down only about 90% of the way and then lightly it got stuck.  When I pushed it until it seated I had to take a sharp object to get it back out.  So I ordered a 22 caliber bore hone from BrushResearch.com for $31.00 and used my power drill to run the bore brush through the barrel with more emphasis on where the cartridge goes in the barrel.  The hone brush put a high gloss finish in the barrel.  Now the cartridges drop in perfectly and drop out with no effort.  After shooting a couple hundred CCI SV rounds again - The problem went away.    If you go on brushresearch.com click on "flexhone for firearms", then rifles, then click on 22 caliber.  Just an idea that worked for me.   Dave

I've never video'd myself shooting to see what happens, but you appear to be wobbling back and forth. Some shots you look like you are back on your heels while others rocked foreword a bit onto the balls of your feet. Judging from the trees, it looks pretty calm out.

Try to pay attention and see which shots are better, weight foreword, or weight aft and maybe learn from that. Break all of these little things down and pay attention.

I shoot quite bladed to the target and have recently discovered through this type of thing that I more stable and shoot better with my toes pointed slightly inward rather than slightly outward. Each range trip is another experiment...

Everyone is different, so what works in someones video might not be a solution for everyone. Grip is for sure that way as hand sizes and dimensions differ considerably. A "Zins Grip" puts my trigger finger through to the second joint with a long trigger and a trigger shoe, so it's useless for me, as an example. Don't dwell on something too long trying to "make" something work because someone else does it that way, either it does or it doesn't, and move on.

I have been having fits with 22LR ammo lately also.

I have a High Standard Tournament tuned by Dave Sams, and Buckmark field target with a trigger job by Dave also. 
The HS was tuned for CCI SV, and ran fine with that, but would have consistent failure to fire with Eley...and intermittent issues with other ammo. Then I must have gotten a bad brick of CCI SV, cause that gave me issues.

Everyone says Aquila, but two or three different bricks of that would have better then 50% fail to fires in both guns

DA/SA wrote:.....but you appear to be wobbling back and forth. Some shots you look like you are back on your heels while others rocked foreword a bit onto the balls of your feet. Judging from the trees, it looks pretty calm out.......

That matches what I feel, and also explains what I asked in the discussion with CR10X.  
I know I'm "wobbling", which is why I can dry-fire so much better when sitting down.

Maybe I should just try to lean forwards slightly, and "lock" my left leg.  
Interesting, I didn't notice that movement until you pointed it out; I was too busy watching other things.

My "goal" was to copy Doug Koenig:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqFn9AU7les
Watching that. video again, his body barely moves.

Thank you!!
Will try again tomorrow.

DA/SA wrote:...........In my opinion, the elbow joint should be horizontal, not vertical.......

Easily changed, but is there a reason why one is better than the other?
Maybe I should try rotating my arm so the joint is more horizontal?

I never thought about, or noticed, this before, but now that I'm trying it, yes, I can make the joint more horizontal.....

mikemyers wrote:

DA/SA wrote:...........In my opinion, the elbow joint should be horizontal, not vertical.......

Easily changed, but is there a reason why one is better than the other?
Maybe I should try rotating my arm so the joint is more horizontal?

I never thought about, or noticed, this before, but now that I'm trying it, yes, I can make the joint more horizontal.....

This elbow thing has me curious so where is the elbow pointing?  Mine points more towards the ground but not exactly.  Haven’t even tried rotating it with a pistol. Seems not an easy thing to do

mikemyers wrote:

DA/SA wrote:...........In my opinion, the elbow joint should be horizontal, not vertical.......

Easily changed, but is there a reason why one is better than the other?

Just things to try. Maybe it will help, maybe not! Everyone is a bit different.

I reduced my wobble from a horizontally elliptical wobble wider than the black to a nine to ten ring round wobble pattern by going to a more bladed stance and rotating my elbow to horizontal. The vertical elbow was apparently contributing to the horizontal elliptical wobble pattern. But then again, my arms are longer than most, so a little movement gets huge when hanging the gun way out there.