Speer HBWC question

I noticed that when loading Speer HBWC bullets in 38 spl brass the bullet gets swaged down from 0.358 to 0.356 (observed after pulling the bullets and re-measuring them after seating step).  When loading Oregon Trail DEWC this issue doesn't happen.  I'm thinking this shrinkage with the Speer might be because the Dillon powder funnel OD is 0.353 - and case tension could be effectively swaging them down like a sizing die.  Those Speer HBWC are pure lead and quite soft and ductile compared to harder alloy used for DEWC.  I'm using a Dillon 550.  Anyone also observe this or have a fix?  I'd like for the HBWC to stay 0.358 to maintain the right bore to bullet fit.  Seems like a slightly larger powder funnel/die might do the trick (?)

http://www.photoescapeinc.com/products/powder-funnel-wadcutter38.html

He's a member here! Super nice guy.

Dave

The larger wadcutter expander works, and a 38 Auto sizing die doesn't size the case as tight as the 38 Special dies meant for jacketed bullets do.

Thanks for the advice, its a big help!

DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. WHEN YOU FIRE IT THE GAS EXPANDS THE HOLLOW BASE(SKIRT) . THAT'S WHAT IT'S DESIGNED TO DO. THEY'LL BE FINE. JP

JIMPGOV wrote:DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. WHEN YOU FIRE IT THE GAS EXPANDS THE HOLLOW BASE(SKIRT) . THAT'S WHAT IT'S DESIGNED TO DO. THEY'LL BE FINE. JP

+1

Dcforman wrote:http://www.photoescapeinc.com/products/powder-funnel-wadcutter38.html

He's a member here! Super nice guy.

Dave

+1 if you have a Dillon this is the way to go.  38 special is a fickle beast.  Take every advantage you can.  If you google Jerry's posts he was making custom expanders, which AP (PhotoEscape) has been kind of enough to produce and sell to us good folks.


From Jerry Keefer

" Reloading with standard off the shelf dies can be hit or miss.. The case expansion pin is often not correct for HBWCs .. It does not go deep enough into the case, and or does not expand to the proper size, to prevent reducing bullet OD. Custom ground pins can solve the problem and tighten groups."

Greetings,

I do not agree that the hollow base is that forgiving.

Below are two targets I fired at 50 yards.

The big group is using the traditional sizing die and expander method.

The small group was done without sizing the brass. It was sized after the bullet was seated with a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

I am of the opinion that the less we distort the bullet during loading, the better.

Cheers,

Dave

Beli It or not but you need wadcutter brass; it has a longer straightwall section so the base of the bullet isn't crushed in by the taper in the sidewalls. Wadcutter brass usually has two cannelures on the sidewall. You can measure the depth of penetration of a 23/64 drill bit shank and see for yourself

Wadcutter brass is also .001 smaller on a diameter (.0005 inch thinner wall) so it swages bullets less whether you resize or not.   The extra large Remington HBWC's (.359+) seat snugly enough to stay put in unsized wadcutter brass and slightly smaller bullets like your Speer's seat equally gently in unsized regular brass.  So you have some options for being more gentle on soft bullets.

A revolver, a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.
UN-sorted  brass.

That is a great comparison fc60. May I assume then the reloading method was to tumble the spent brass, de-prime only at step #1, and otherwise proceed as normal except use the Lee Factory Crimp die at the end?  If so, that seems to bypass the need for other special equipment.

Also, I am using a set of Lee 38 dies.  Are all Lee crimp dies "factory crimp" or is there a difference?  I should look this up but being lazy.

Greetings,

The Lee Factory Crimp Die has a maximum sizing ring.

It just sizes the case enough to meet SAAMI specifications.

Cheers,

Dave

Wouldn't life be sweet if the die makers made data sheets showing sizing specifications available? There have been several times I would like to shop by dimensions rather than by what someone thinks the die is for.

I wonder if the 38 Auto sizing die I use is doing a similar function as the Lee Factory Crimp Die. I make my loads to run in an S&W M52 (huge chamber), S&W revolvers (medium chambers) and a Colt target revolver (smallest chambers).

Greetings,

If you measure the id of a 38 Super sizing die and a Lee 38 Special Factory Crimp die they will be very close to the same dimension.

HOWEVER, dies are manufactured to fit all scenarios and will vary considerably.

Cheers,

Dave

fc60 wrote:Greetings,

If you measure the id of a 38 Super sizing die and a Lee 38 Special Factory Crimp die they will be very close to the same dimension.

HOWEVER, dies are manufactured to fit all scenarios and will vary considerably.

Cheers,

Dave

You ain't just whistling Dixie. I bought a few old 38 Special wadcutter sizers, expanders and die sets on fleabay (none are Star or Lyfetime) just to see if things were different when HBWC was more popular. No luck over my custom wadcutter expander or wrong sizing die.

A funny note is that I use a Lee 38 Auto/Super carbide sizing die as my S&Ws bulge the 38 Spl brass near the base and the Lee sizer irons it out well by getting far down on the brass.

Stephen

Firstly, - thank you for good word towards my direction DCforman and JayHawk.

Secondly - I totally agree with Mr. Wilson regarding using Lee FCD.  Whether one uses unsized 38 WC specific brass or uses expander that goes deep down in the case for the full length or projectile without Lee FCD you can expect feeding / chambering issues.  Lee FCD brings loaded round back to SAAMI spec.  However please be aware that factory specifications for this die allow for quite a wide tolerance.  I have three of four Lee FCD dies for the caliber, had to order custom one with specific ID.  When one orders such die, Lee grinds it exactly to ID ordered.  If I remember correctly, mine was ordered with 0.3750" +/- five tenth.

I have HBWC loading setup on Super 1050 and Lee FCD die is last one. Crimp is removed (it is done by dedicated crimp die on station 6), so it does sizing only, and specifically way below so crimp isn't altered.

Separate thank you to Sa-tevp for "You ain't just whistling Dixie", - great addition to my collection of idioms that I learn and understand.

AP