mantis x review

hi new to bullseye,attended a class on how to shoot bullseye,instructor said dryfire will help,so i tried and it was unbearable and boring.after no progress.i found a mantis x shooting trainer for 100.00 bucks ok ill try it.down loaded app.glued mount to bottom of spare mag. (i also removed follower,racked easier)turned on unit and connected it thru bluetooth to iphone.start open training, raise gun pull trigger-im hooked.i turned on audio feedback,it tells you shot value each time.every time i do something wrong it flags screen,immediate feedback.it also has training course and more. to shoot a match i shoot 30 rds slow fire then for timed fire and rapid fire i use compressed surprise break.it has a timer and beeps when to shoot,i rackslide after each shot,it adds a little pressure to a timed event.overall it gives me feedback when i change position,or grip or trigger finger placement i am still learning about unit.to use on other 1911 with iron sights just swap mag and you are all set.i have dryfired 3k rounds so far.app and unit well made working as intended,a very nice training aid.i bought right from mantis dryfire unit only.100 bucks TYRO
TYRO

Encouraging report.  I ordered a Mantis (dry & live fire model) a couple days ago.  Like you, I find dry fire exceedingly boring and not very productive.  My hope is that it will provide the feedback I need to eliminate the wild shots.  Right now, I'm not sure when or why those 6's and 7's are happening.  Getting old sucks.

This thread got me off the fence and I ordered one this morning.

One of my hopes with this is that I'll better be able to see when my steadiest settle occurs.  I seem to have good dryfires when they are early and also when they are 6 or so seconds in, but in between doesn't seem as stable.

Interesting -

So you didn't mount it under the muzzle but on the bottom of a magazine? I don't understand how you can track precise movement having the device mounted that way.


V

I'd like to throw in my 2 cents on dry firing. I'm a firm believer in knowing what a 10 looks like and what a 10 feels like. It can look like a 10, but not be a 10. It can feel like a 10, but not be a 10.

I dry fire more than I shoot live fire, so I rely heavily on it when preparing to go shooting. 
When shooting live, when the shot breaks I'm analyzing two things; look and feel. Our brains can learn to see what the 10 looks like (or good shot that is not a 10; shot calling. Not all shots outside the 10 ring are bad) and our hand/arm/stance can tell us what the shot felt like. Through repetition we learn this; hopefully reinforcing the good!

I use dry fire practice to learn and master each fundamental. Dry practice does not have wind or recoil to interfere with what your eye is seeing when breaking the shot. If you are genuine with yourself in your dry practice you will see the good and the bad. You will take the steps to correct the bad and improve your shot process.

When I was a kid I hated pulling weeds. Now as an adult and a home owner I enjoy pulling weeds. I changed my attitude. I think my buddy oldsalt444 needs an attitude adjustment LOL. We reap what we sow. Especially in dry firing. We have to be disciplined and not go through the motions of thinking we are training. Know you are training.

Years ago I tried a dry firing aid similar to the original post. I felt like I was getting the same feedback from my own awareness as the aid. I am very serious about my dry firing routine and feel that I get the most out of relying on what my brain is telling me during the process. I don't think a machine can do that for me.

When you are at a match its all about you! What are you seeing and feeling when you shoot? You are the machine
Jon

Jon brings a great perspective as usual.  It's all about fundamentals.  I have an underlying fear that I'm reinforcing bad habits, even in dry firing.  That's what I hope the MantisX will point out.  I shoot irons only and I can tell when a really bad shot occurs, but it's those pesky ones bleeding into the white that's hurting my scores and puzzling me.  But I see more dry firing and air pistol in the garage in my future.

V i glued to bottom of mag.sensor is very sensitive to any movement and picks up everything.yes jon i agree,sometimes i dryfire and its a really bad score and shot looked ok,and i realize i wasn't  looking at dot,also i sometimes concentrate only on dot in center of scope (target blurry )and get my highest score,but to be honest,how you press trigger seems to be biggest factor.(i am by no means giving advice,hence my name tyro )
dryfire without mantis i see all x,with mantis not so good. tyro

Mr tyro,
If you break down into 5 fundamentals; stance, breathing, grip, sights and trigger control. Trigger control errors result in the worst shots! The others can shift your groups or shots, but trigger pull error will contribute to the largest/grossest ugly shots. Coaching is one of fastest ways to overcome errors in understanding and applying the fundamentals. My basis comparison of a master vs an expert; master has mastered trigger squeeze. The expert is on the verge of mastering it but hasn't grasped it yet.
Jon

Jon Eulette wrote:Coaching is one of fastest ways to overcome errors in understanding and applying the fundamentals. 
Jon

Since i have no one near me wiling to take me on as a student, I'm willing to see what the electronic coach has to offer.

I have had a SCATT for quite some time but I don't use it for training I use it to see how my training is progressing.  I really only pull it out every few weeks and I measure my trace at trigger pull, how long my hold is in the 10 & X rings and group size.  The reason I don't just use it all the time is I found it too distracting.

A friend of mine recommended one of these Mantis devices just yesterday. I am not sure it will tell me anything more than the hole produced by a shot. I do not dry fire at all but I do shoot my Air Pistol 3 home matches per week ....very inexpensive to shoot. 

At first, I did not think that the Air Pistol translated to .22,CF,45. But sight alignment and trigger control is the same no matter what pistol is in my hand. However, the Air Pistol is much more sensitive to errors and taught me more than shooting the other pistols as you can see very small difference. 

I agree with Jon on trigger control but would add that keeping the wrist firm aids in proper trigger control.

Ed Hall wrote:. . .
Personally, the greatest benefit I gained from the Rika, was when I stated to understand the true depth of being able to "SEE" with my own eyes, what was happening during a dry fire shot.  In a way, the Rika taught me how to observe my dry fire without it.  Once I really could watch the shot unfold via the sighting system, I could carry that observation to the range.  IOW, the Rika taught me how to observe much more accurately, what I was watching unfold before my eyes.
. . .

The above is from an earlier post in another thread.  (I didn't want to rewrite it, because I'm lazy.)  The original post is here.  It should seem similar to something Jon wrote earlier in this thread.  I just came in from a different direction.  Where Jon had already learned to see what was going on by the time he tried an electronic trainer, the trainer helped me to reach that level.

There is something missing from the posts within this thread (unless I just missed it) that I also mention later in my previous post.  That's a journal.  You should have notes about your live fire and your dry fire.  One of the troubles that can come from lone training, is not knowing how to effect a positive change in a perceived weakness.  This is even more troublesome without notes.  And, you should review your notes to direct your dry fire sessions.

As to the Mantis-X, what I have seen, looks good and I believe it can be a good training aid.  But, it is not, by itself, a magic bullet.  You need to use it effectively.  And, my suggestion is to use it to improve your "view" of what you "see" with your sighting system.  In a way, I tend to think of it as learning not to need the electronic trainer to see what "happened" (in the past), by more acutely experiencing what you really are doing (right now).

And, also as Jon mentioned, there is more to seeing than just the visual.  Experience the shot process with your whole self.

I bought myself a SCATT Basic for Christmas and used it a half dozen times in January and then just haven't had time to fiddle with it. 

I recently decided to step up from a Marvel with an Ultradot to a Range Officer in .45 and iron sights. Everything changed, as now I feel the need to use a six o-clock hold in order to see the front sight clearly. With that I suddenly found it difficult to call my shots in dry fire after using a dot.

The range was closed today, so I figured I would head to my shop, which is eighty feet wide, and set up the SCATT and a target at an actual 25 yds. At first the "shots" were all over the place and the trace was as well. Then I started concentrating on my hold and the trace got smaller and more concentrated, but the shots were on the perimeter of the yellow trace either left, right, up, or down, but the trace looked pretty good to me. Then I shifted to concentrating on trigger control and the "shots" began to move toward the center of the yellow trace, as the yellow trace gave me a visual on how I was applying pressure to the trigger. Soon I began to get the "shots" centered in the trace, but I wasn't really concerned as to where on the target they were, just as long as they were fairly centered on the trace. Then I began putting it all together and by combining sight picture, sight alignment, and trigger control, I began fairly consistently hitting within the 9 ring on a 25 yd slow fire target at the actual distance of 25 yds with a fairly concentric trace.

All of this in 69 "shots" and analyzing each "shot'. (the last shot is shown below)

I'm pretty impressed with the whole deal at this point. Regardless of if it is SCATT or MantisX I have found it to be a useful tool, rather than just a way to shoot in my building!

 

I believe that with continued work, I can reduce and smooth out the trace and get shots off a bit more efficiently.

Lots more to learn!

Ok I'll ask. What does the picture above tell you about the shot process.

The green is the trace showing your muzzle movement.
The yellow is the trace showing your muzzle movement one second before the shot breaks.
The red is the muzzle movement after the shot breaks.

My Ultradot shows me the same thing without using Scatt, and I see no reason to use it with the dot scope as I have never had any real issues calling my shots or seeing what is happening.

Iron sights and a six o-clock hold are completely new to me, and during normal dry fire, everything looked like a ten as I couldn't really couldn't get a good reading on the sights due partly to vision issues. Hooking up to this thing for an hour or so helped immensely with being able to read the sights as I could go back and review each shot and know exactly what was happening in relation to what I was seeing in the sights.

What I was mainly looking for was concentricity of my hold in relation to the target and consistency from shot to shot. Toward the end of the session I was seeing that, and the ability to call my shots had improved greatly.

YMMV

(edit)  I'll also add that since I had 25 yds indoors I had decided to either buy an air pistol or SCATT (didn't know about MantisX). I decided on SCATT for the versatility, as I couldn't really see how shooting an air pistol with a 2 lb trigger was going to help me with shooting revolvers using double action, which is my preference.