Which Brazos 9mm Hi Tek bullet?

I've got a new Sig P210A and a CZ Custom Accushadow, both of which are 1:10 twist I believe. I had 500 of the 115xtp's on hand that I'm almost out of. Was thinking of trying a lead bullet next and was hoping the Hi Tek coating would help with leading in the 9mm with the extra velocity over 45.

Truthfully these pistols are too light for me to seriously consider for match use also the 115xtp loaded with 6.0 of Power Pistol was pretty snappy. I'll probably just use for light target work and maybe a local match. Which Brazos bullet should I try? Also interested in load data, got lots of WST and some BE and PP. Other powders might be hard to find now.

I have been testing coated bullets in my Sig P320X Compact. I've tried several different brands, shapes and weights of coated bullets. I've also tried several different powders. A load of 4.0 grains of Alliant Bullseye under a 115 grain Acme bullet shows promise at 25 yards. I have only shot 5 shot groups, standing and unsupported. The groups range from 2 7/8" to 1 1/4". The Sig P320 barrels have a 1:10 twist. The coated swaged Precision Bullets in 9mm, sized to .356" seem to produce the most consistent groups. I have no idea if this load will hold its accuracy at 50 yards.

The 115 or 124 RN to start.  Drop the velocity to 1050 or as low as reliable functioning.  See if that tames it some.

The Brazos 125 gr RN Hitek coated bullet is outstanding in .38 spl and .38 Super. No reason why it would not be good in 9mm.  W231, WST, VVn320 or similar should work fine.

Allgoodhits wrote:The Brazos 125 gr RN Hitek coated bullet is outstanding in .38 spl and .38 Super. No reason why it would not be good in 9mm.  W231, WST, VVn320 or similar should work fine.

I'm getting mixed opinions whether WST should even be tried for 9mm or if its too fast of a powder. Have you personally loaded 9mm with WST? I'm also thinking of trying 147gr bullets along with the 125, I'm curious to see if the 147's albeit heavier result in a less snappy recoil. Thinking of getting one "bag" each.

Extra velocity? Leading? I don't have those issues with Brazos or even with other lead bullets in 9 mm but I don't drive them that hard.

I will look up the other loads I had but I recall a 115 lead with 3.0 of BE was nice and I got 2" groups at 50 yards. Velocity was around 800.

I also used 231 and wst.

Allgoodhits wrote:The Brazos 125 gr RN Hitek coated bullet is outstanding in .38 spl and .38 Super. No reason why it would not be good in 9mm.  W231, WST, VVn320 or similar should work fine.

Yeah, WST in 9mm is not a combo I’d try.  It might seem to work fine but the pressures can go from warm to OH MY GOD,! In ver short order.

Wobbley wrote:

Allgoodhits wrote:The Brazos 125 gr RN Hitek coated bullet is outstanding in .38 spl and .38 Super. No reason why it would not be good in 9mm.  W231, WST, VVn320 or similar should work fine.

Yeah, WST in 9mm is not a combo I’d try.  It might seem to work fine but the pressures can go from warm to OH MY GOD,! In ver short order.

I have a shooter who shoots 125 LG (not the newer NLG) with 4.6 WST and claims 2" at 50 yards in a revolver.   He's not a bullseye guy, more of a Bianchi Cup guy.  I want to try it in my 1911.  Otherwise, my best performing and most enjoyable load is 3.0 Sport Pistol under our 38-150 SWC sized at .357".  I'm getting nice tight groups (2" or so)  but do have those 1 or 2 flyers that keep me searching.

Zane And I had a recent PM session  on powders for 9mm, and with his forebearance I’ll copy it here.

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I have not run any loads with WST in 9mm with any bullet weight. Winchester NEVER published any data for 9mm and WST, and Hodgdon does not list any loads for WST in 9mm.  They do list load data for 700X which is a flake powder and such...but in shotgun has similar uses (target 12 gauge shotgun loads) so looking at that maybe tells us why.  

The 700X load data runs from 3.9 Gr giving 991 fps and 26000 psi to 4.3 Gr giving 1091 and 31900 psi, all with the Speer 115 GDHP.  The lead bullet load (115 RNL) had 3.3/986/25200 and 3.7/1082/31900.   I did run Red dot powder and with 115 grain bullets got 4.0/1106/30716 and 4.5/1192/38679.   

So my take on all this is that WST is too quick to be used in 9mm.  As is Red Dot and 700X.  WSF is very much better and so is CFEPistol.  As a matter of fact I’ve loaded thousands of 9mm range training ammo with 5.3 Gr CFEPistol behind a 9mm plated bullet and it shoots ok for its intended purpose.  Another good one is tried and true Unique.  


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I've had good results with True Blue under 124's and Power Pistol & WSF under 115's.

Bill

zanemoseley wrote:

Allgoodhits wrote:The Brazos 125 gr RN Hitek coated bullet is outstanding in .38 spl and .38 Super. No reason why it would not be good in 9mm.  W231, WST, VVn320 or similar should work fine.

I'm getting mixed opinions whether WST should even be tried for 9mm or if its too fast of a powder. Have you personally loaded 9mm with WST? I'm also thinking of trying 147gr bullets along with the 125, I'm curious to see if the 147's albeit heavier result in a less snappy recoil. Thinking of getting one "bag" each.

Yes, I have personally loaded many thousands of 9mm ammo using WST using 120, 124 & 125 gr HiTek coated bullets. Using 3.2 - 3.4 grains with varying OAL, on the short side of 1.100"  depending on the bullet and gun being used. These should give about 1,020+/- fps from a 5" barrel. Accuracy potential is about 2 - 3" at 50 yds. No signs of pressure on case or primer. Actually, it is pretty mild load. These were fired out of 1911 with Schuemann barrel and a stock SIG 320X5.  (same bullet weights out of a .38 spl will take 4.4 - 4.7gr to reach that 1020+/- fps velocity. Also a 2-3" 50 yd potential. I've loaded tens of thousands of those)

Lightfoot wrote:

Wobbley wrote:

Allgoodhits wrote:The Brazos 125 gr RN Hitek coated bullet is outstanding in .38 spl and .38 Super. No reason why it would not be good in 9mm.  W231, WST, VVn320 or similar should work fine.

Yeah, WST in 9mm is not a combo I’d try.  It might seem to work fine but the pressures can go from warm to OH MY GOD,! In ver short order.

I have a shooter who shoots 125 LG (not the newer NLG) with 4.6 WST and claims 2" at 50 yards in a revolver.   He's not a bullseye guy, more of a Bianchi Cup guy.  I want to try it in my 1911.  Otherwise, my best performing and most enjoyable load is 3.0 Sport Pistol under our 38-150 SWC sized at .357".  I'm getting nice tight groups (2" or so)  but do have those 1 or 2 flyers that keep me searching.

… and that's a fact. I introduced that person to Brazos Bullets. He, and I were having very good success with another brand of HiTek coated bullets in .355, .356 and .357 in the 120, 124 & 125 gr ranges in .38 spl and 9mm and .38 Super. All using WST, all trying to run about 1,010 - 1,050 fps. I started shooting BE, just to do something different and was using that other brand Hitek bullets. I started seeing reports about Brazos. Tried them, and I have ordered and shot many thousands of the 180, and 200 gr .45 SWC and many hundreds of the 125 gr bullets. If one is seeking maximum velocity, then. WST is not your powder, nor are any of the powders in that speed range for that matter. But if you want a pretty soft shooting powder which is low in density (fills case with small charge weight) and especially if lead or Hitek coated, it may be worth a try.

I've had very good results with WST in 9 m/m,  and a Dardus 125gr lead bullet. I load that at 4.2 gr, and average 1070 fps in my 1911's with very good accuracy, Also tried some loads at 4.1 gr, with slightly better accuracy, but wanted one load for three different guns, and 4.1gr didn't reliably cycle in my son's and my M&P's.

Regarding the P210A, the 1:10 twist barrel does pretty well with 147gr bullets. I'll be Ransom testing the Brazos 147 gr CRN and CFP (flat point) bullets this month and will post results (50 and 25 yards). Last year when I tested 147gr XTPs at ~925 fps, I got good results at 50 yards. I use Alliant E^3, but some of my Brazos 147 gr CRN are loaded with WSF. I re-designed the guide rod in my P210A so that I could install a heavier spring, so my lockup is tighter than the factory pistol, but I think the test results should be relevant.

One thing that seems to matter when loading coated 9mm bullets is that there should be no crimp applied, just the bell removed. I was given this advice and it is the last variable I applied before my groups tightened up.

BE Mike wrote:One thing that seems to matter when loading coated 9mm bullets is that there should be no crimp applied, just the bell removed. I was given this advice and it is the last variable I applied before my groups tightened up.

Mike, what's the reasoning behind this? I always figured you'd apply a crimp like a lead bullet.. That's what I do with the Brazos 160gr coated bullets, I crimp tight to about .463" which is the same as my lead bullets.

zanemoseley wrote:

BE Mike wrote:One thing that seems to matter when loading coated 9mm bullets is that there should be no crimp applied, just the bell removed. I was given this advice and it is the last variable I applied before my groups tightened up.

Mike, what's the reasoning behind this? I always figured you'd apply a crimp like a lead bullet.. That's what I do with the Brazos 160gr coated bullets, I crimp tight to about .463" which is the same as my lead bullets.

I really don't know, but a guess would be that it has something to do with damaging the coating at a critical point. Lead bullets seal with the lube applied in the groove(s). I only know that not crimping coated bullets works. Precision Bullets recommends a crimp for 9mm coated bullets to be about .377" at the case mouth. They also don't recommend that the Lee Factory Crimp die be used, but a standard taper crimp die. Using fast powders like Alliant Bullseye, I don't get any unburned powder and the bullets don't move in the case.

9mm cases might be fairly thick and don't open up like a 45 does? I could imagine the crimp remains and damaging the bullet as it exits. 

Could be bigger issue for softer bullets lke swaged hbwc etc

Thoughts?

bruce martindale wrote:9mm cases might be fairly thick and don't open up like a 45 does? I could imagine the crimp remains and damaging the bullet as it exits. 

Thoughts?

I agree with Bruce in regards to 9mm cases being sturdy.  However crimp is not only issue, and probably not the main issue, IMO.  Regardless I do recommend 0.376" crimp with bullets sized up to 0.357".  Bigger issue is base swaging IMO.  This is the reason behind my machining PTUs specific to coated bullets.  Expander portion on this PTUs opens 9mm case to almost full seating length of the projectile  leaving ".035" neck tension measured from the base of the bullet" (it is in quotes, as it is taken from email to me from one of the IDPA type shooters, and uses Brazos 147grainers.).  I use 135gr NLG bullets cast and coated by my friend, which is dimensionally very close to Brazos.

AP

I might add that the Precision Bullets are swaged bullets. They do seem very uniform and have good bases. Acme, Brazos and Blue bullets are cast. I don't mean to imply that they are bad as Bruce gets very good 50 yard groups. Brazos was very accommodating in offering different sizes to test. One thing, I've discovered is that .45 ACP ammo is much easier to work up a good load for bullseye pistol accuracy than 9mm, when using coated bullets (copper jacketed is relatively easy). The problem is that those jacketed bullets seem to need much more velocity to group well, thus giving up the accuracy advantage in recoil. That is especially important at the short line.