The S&W Model 52

by Tim:H11 7/26/2020, 9:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

I’m curious, having never held or fired one before, how accurate is a stock out of the box S&W Model 52? I know nothing about them really but I’m curious. Those of you that are more acquainted with such a shooting iron, please share your opinions on its quality good or bad and shooting capabilities and characteristics please.

by **Wobbley** 7/29/2020, 7:24 pm

You wouldn’t happen to have a list of fitters and their identifying stamps?

by LenV 7/29/2020, 7:34 pm

Jason, You shoot muzzle loaders. You have the follow thru figured out years ago. You need to give one a try. They can be unforgiving at 50 yds if you start getting tired. But that's why we shoot the 50 yd first. Mine is one of the great ones built by the best (#2). Even playing around with a cheap scope it will clean targets easy.

by Tim:H11 7/29/2020, 8:11 pm

LenV wrote:Jason, You shoot muzzle loaders. You have the follow thru figured out years ago. You need to give one a try. They can be unforgiving at 50 yds if you start getting tired. But that's why we shoot the 50 yd first. Mine is one of the great ones built by the best (#2). Even playing around with a cheap scope it will clean targets easy.

What Bullets are you using Len?

by LenV 7/29/2020, 8:16 pm

Magnus, 148gr HBWC. They are a swagged bullet. I can look the number up later.

by Tim:H11 7/29/2020, 8:25 pm

LenV wrote:Magnus, 148gr HBWC. They are a swagged bullet. I can look the number up later.

That’s okay I’m on good terms with Terry I can give him a call. I have a bunch of 148gr DEWCBB that I got super cheap to play with a PPC revolver. They shoot alright in the revolver. I’m hoping they’ll work in an auto-loader.

by LenV 7/29/2020, 8:30 pm

Get the 514 if he has any in stock.

by Tim:H11 7/29/2020, 8:36 pm

LenV wrote:Get the 514 if he has any in stock.

I have over 4500 of the DEWCBB so it might be a while lol

by **PhotoEscape** 7/29/2020, 8:52 pm

I'm surprised no one mentioned that Clark has faster barrel with 1:10 twist available. JE hinted the need for re-barreling in order to achieve better accuracy at 50Y, hence there is an option. I believe, KKM contemplated machining 1:10 barrels for M52 as well. Also, worth mentioning that Remington 148gr HBWC was "the Holy Grale" bullet for 38 WC loads on top of 2.7 - 2.8 gr of BE. While Remington no longer releases this projectile for sale as a reloading component, every so often one or another forum member offers them for sale in Commercial Row.

AP

by Bmitch996 7/29/2020, 9:31 pm

Wobbley wrote:You wouldn’t happen to have a list of fitters and their identifying stamps?

No, but he remembered that the first person he trained to build them along with himself was a man by the name of Tony Gregonis. We figured he used the #3, I have 52-1 with that number. I've seen 52's where the fitters stamp was not a # but a letter or other symbol.

by mikemyers 7/29/2020, 10:03 pm

Bmitch996, one of the fitters, name "Don" now hangs out in the S&W forum. I have two Model 52-2's, one bought almost in new condition having spent its life time in a safe, and another that nobody, S&W included, could fix. Don told me what to do, with videos and photos, and the gun was totally, completely apart - other than for the trigger parts. We did eventually figure out what the problem was, and it seems to be fixed now. I put a Vortex Venom dot sight on that gun, and left my own 52 untouched.

They are beautiful, such a masterpiece of engineering, and precision fitting. If I ever stop working with my 1911 for a few days, I want to bring them back to the range.

For anyone who gets one, and wants to disassemble it for cleaning, follow the proper instructions, NOT the on-line YouTube video that shows the wrong way to take it apart.

Like what was said up above, you're probably better than the gun, but it's one of the finest pistols you can find - with a history to match.

If anyone ever has use for it, I documented every step along the way as Don helped me work on my non-working gun. It's saved in a file on my computer. Rounds were getting very light strikes, not enough to fire them, and the problem turned out to be a worn out magazine disconnector part that is located underneath the rear sight. I bought several spares, because parts like this are getting difficult to find. Numrich was usually the best source.

by mikemyers 7/29/2020, 10:09 pm

Tim:H11 wrote:
LenV wrote:Magnus, 148gr HBWC. They are a swagged bullet. I can look the number up later.

That’s okay I’m on good terms with Terry I can give him a call. I have a bunch of 148gr DEWCBB that I got super cheap to play with a PPC revolver. They shoot alright in the revolver. I’m hoping they’ll work in an auto-loader.

If the lead protrudes the slightest bit beyond the case, the rounds don't feed.

Terry sold me his #515 bullets for my 52, but I haven't changed over the press from 45 in three or four years.
I thought those rounds worked well for me, but I don't have enough skill to really say much about them.

I bought several boxes of Zero, Magtech, and Federal Premium that I was going to use until I start doing my own 38 reloading again.

by shaky452 7/29/2020, 10:34 pm

A few years ago I was curious to see if swaging .357" HBWC bullets down to .356" would improve the accuracy in my 52-2 loads. I can't recall the bullet I was using, but the load was 2.7 grains of Bullseye. Five shot groups were shot over sandbags at 25 yards. There was no significant difference in group size between the swaged down bullets and the as received bullets. The smallest group was 0.893", the largest 1.770", and the average of all 12 groups was 1.325". I'm sure the results would have been a little better if I had more skill or a RR was used. I can't recall what the 50 yard group was, but I remember it was a disappointment. Anyone interested in the S&W 52 should read Gil Hebard's article in The Pistol Shooter's Treasury that was reprinted from the 1963 Gun Digest.

by lakemurrayman 7/30/2020, 8:23 pm

Brian,after reading your post about numbering I went and checked my 2 52's.One has 0 or an o the other has the number 3,both being 52 no dash.AP,the people that i've talked with that have the clark barrel say there's not much difference in accuracy.As i've said before they are wonderful pistols,excellent triggers,extremely accurate.I have never had a problem with bullets keyholing at 50 yards.

PS:Brian I am glad I got to meet and talk with your dad and watch him shoot his 52.

John Harvey

by **PhotoEscape** 7/30/2020, 9:50 pm

Well, out of curiosity I checked mine too. They are all 52-2s. Oldest one from 1973 has no markings on the bottom at the magwell area at all. This one has s/n: starting with A1.
Latest one has s/n THB5xxx. It was manufactured in 1990, and has letter L. And then there is one in between, also with s/n starting with A, A4. This one has 0 or letter O, - not sure what exactly.

John, I'm not in position to dispute what you were told. However when season is over, and weather permitting I'll ransom rest all three. More so, the ones from 1973 and 1990 have Clark's 1:10 barrels fitted, and as well I have both OEM barrels. Fitting was done by Clark's gunsmiths, and condition was "no change to the bushings". So I should be able to test OEM and Clark's side by side. I have some good old Remington match ammo, and as well my own reloads, that were tested at 50Y, and proved to be "very promising". That probably will be in late September.

AP

by mikemyers 7/30/2020, 11:01 pm

User 'donk', in the S&W forum, explained how and where each 52 was marked to identify the assembler for that gun. He was one of the assemblers. Maybe that explains the markings you're finding. Apparently, if the 52 didn't pass the final tests, it went back to that person for more work.

This is the entire discussion - somewhere in this discussion the identifying marks are explained. It's a very long discussion though.....
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/585908-s-w-model-52-2-failure-fire-quite-often.html

It would probably be faster if you just post a new thread there and ask 'donk' about this.

by BE Mike 7/31/2020, 8:03 am

lakemurrayman wrote:Brian,after reading your post about numbering I went and checked my 2 52's.One has 0 or an o the other has the number 3,both being 52 no dash.AP,the people that i've talked with that have the clark barrel say there's not much difference in accuracy.As i've said before they are wonderful pistols,excellent triggers,extremely accurate.I have never had a problem with bullets keyholing at 50 yards.

PS:Brian I am glad I got to meet and talk with your dad and watch him shoot his 52.

John Harvey

John, I think one shooter's "keyholing" is another's "scuffing". At 50 yds. I've noticed some bullets that slightly tip into the target; what I call scuffing, but with the many thousands of rounds I shot from my 52-1, I never had one even remotely approach keyholing. On the old bullseye-L back in the '90's, I was an expert striving for outdoor master. Some of the top shooters advised me to give up the 52-1 and just shoot the 1911 for centerfire. The reasoning had nothing to do with the reliability or accuracy of the 52-1, but that it was a "different" gun to master. I think that going from the 52-1 to the 1911 for centerfire was a factor in my making outdoor master.

by jwax 7/31/2020, 3:13 pm

"donk52" on the S&W forum says he's the builder/fitter of my Model 52-2, as evidenced by the magazine mark of the "0" or, sometimes looks like a "C" depending on the angle of the punch. Very helpful and skilled fellow!
I've since had Clark install and fit their barrel, and am very pleased with the results.
Now if I can just get myself to shoot it correctly.......

by lakemurrayman 8/1/2020, 4:23 pm

AP:I look forward to hearing your test on the barrels.When I first heard about clark was going to make them I called to see when they would be available and they said they had some out for testing but couldn't get them to commit a date.That is when i began to hear about the accuracy was not that much better.You will have the best factory ammo to test the barrels as I bought 4000 rounds of the Remington 148 wadcutter once and shot it up.Still looking to find something better.Best of luck.

John

by orpheoet 8/1/2020, 5:15 pm

My best slow fire ever was with my 52-2 a few years ago at 50 ft Canton McKinley. Unfortunately this gun is pretty much aweful at 50 yards. I still love it. Load was 2.7 WST and Zero HBWC

by BE Mike 8/2/2020, 7:45 am

orpheoet wrote:My best slow fire ever was with my 52-2 a few years ago at 50 ft Canton McKinley. Unfortunately this gun is pretty much aweful at 50 yards. I still love it. Load was 2.7 WST and Zero HBWC

You might want to test it at 50 yards with factory match .38 SPL 148 gr. HBWC. You might be surprised!

by orpheoet 8/2/2020, 8:25 am

BE Mike wrote:
orpheoet wrote:My best slow fire ever was with my 52-2 a few years ago at 50 ft Canton McKinley. Unfortunately this gun is pretty much aweful at 50 yards. I still love it. Load was 2.7 WST and Zero HBWC

You might want to test it at 50 yards with factory match .38 SPL 148 gr. HBWC. You might be surprised!

I tried it with Federal factory match. Barely 8 ring off a sandbag

by Tim:H11 8/2/2020, 9:47 am

After reading Gil Hebards report in The Pistol Shooters Treasury, Federal’s ammunition was not the best of choices anyhow. I would at least try a few other ammunition options before settling on the thought that she don’t shoot at 50.

by mikemyers 8/2/2020, 10:34 am

"According to History of Smith & Wesson by S&W historian Roy Jinks, "To insure the accuracy of the pistol, extra rigid inspection was incorporated by having the Model 52 machine rest tested at 50 yards to insure that the pistol would shoot five-shot groups having maximum spread of two inches. Any pistol that could not meet this standard was returned to production for reworking."

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/handgun_reviews_st_swmodel5238_200906/100100

Seems like we need to find out what the gunsmith at S&W did to get this required accuracy.

by mikemyers 8/2/2020, 11:12 am

Jason, you may find some of this to be helpful:

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t11870p75-questions-on-getting-a-sw-model-52-working-properly#103874

Gee, I just started reading that entire thread. I hope Cecil and Jim don't read all of it - they already think I know nothing about working on guns, and at the time I started that discussion, I was afraid to even remove the firing pin. Feel free to read the whole discussion anyway if you wish to, but hopefully you'll never need to do any of that stuff. And I may not be qualified to work on guns, but neither the several people who tried before I bought the gun could fix it, and neither could S&W - the gun was sent to them twice, and they couldn't get it to work any better. The final thing that did fix it was hidden underneath the rear sight, part of the magazine disconnect. It's a small plunger, that is shaped so it can't rotate, only go up and down, but this one was all rounded off, and when it rotated, it interfered with the firing pin spring. When the gun was fully apart, and nothing had helped, Don said that was the only thing left to check on.

Every so often they come up for sale in these forums.

by Sponsored content

The S&W Model 52

The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

RE:the model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

RE:the model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52

Re: The S&W Model 52