Questions Re SA Custom Shop 1911 Bullseye Wad Gun

I've been looking at the Springfield Armory 1911 Wad Gun built in SA's Custom Shop.  Here are my questions: (1) If I were to buy their gun, is it likely to need additional gunsmith work, or would I be good to go for Bullseye competition purposes?  (2)  If I were to buy a milspec, or a Range Officer, and hand it over to a gunsmith to give me similar features, should I expect the total cost to be more or less than this pistol, which has an MSRP of right at $2600,

SA's advertising about the gun (what you get) is as follows:

• Custom fit slide to national match frame
  
• Custom fit match barrel & bushing
  
• Polished feed ramp & throated barrel
  
• Springfield Custom tool steel match hammer & sear
  
• Fitted speed trigger w/custom tuned 3.5 lb. trigger pull
  
• Tuned for total reliability
  
• Lowered & flared ejection port
  
• Tuned & polished extractor
  
• Full length recoil spring assembly
  
• Custom fit beavertail grip safety
  
• Custom fit single side extended thumb safety
  

• Frame or slide mounted rail scope mount
  
• Precision checkered front strap, 20LPI
  
• Beveled & polished magazine well
  
• Precision checkered flat mainspring housing
  
• Checkered cocobolo grips
  
• Premium Black T finish complete
  
• Slide mounted scope mount
  
• 2 magazines
  

Here's a photo of the pistol:



A little bit about me.  I'm retired and turn 71 in Nov.  When I was in my late 20s or early 30s I shot some bullseye with a club in Indiana.  I only shot rim and center fire, but never bought a 1911 .45.  I had a blast, and even did some reloading with my father-in-law's reloading gear.  I shot in the mid 80s.  Occasionally, I did a little better.  Unfortunately, I didn't get a whole lot of guidance on how to improve, so it was hit & miss (pun intended) on developing good habits and getting rid of the bad ones.  I bought a Mod 41 (long barrel) and M52-2. All my shooting was done with them.

I moved for new job and fell out of shooting.  Literally decades went by without my even picking up my guns.  Fortunately, they were put away clean and well oiled.  They've held up well over the years and will probably always shoot far better than I do.

In the last few months, I decided to get back into bullseye style shooting.  I had a supply of 40 year old ammo laying around, so I hit an indoor range with 25 yard lanes, and gave it a tumble.  Not unexpectedly, I didn't go great, although I hit the slow fire target more often than I missed completely.  The scores weren't worth tallying.  Part of my problem was old eyes not getting along well with iron sights.  So, I decided to try a Matchdot II for each pistol.  I bought a new barrel for the 41, since mine wasn't drilled for a rail and I wanted to keep the original barrel pristine.  I got a rail from BME for my M52, which attaches in place of the rear sight.  Very slick setup.  I got lucky; neither red dot has negative magnification.  Anyway, they made a big difference.  Now, I'm shooting in the upper 70s to mid 80s on the 25 yd slow fire target, which is significantly better than where I started.  I'm not missing the target anymore.   My wobble is still pretty bad, but getting better with time and practice.

I've been reading up on and practicing the fundamentals.  I need to get into a dryfire routine, but competing priorities have been getting in the way.  And yes, I know I need more dedication to training.

Finally, I have NO interest in shooting CMP.  My eyes are not going to let me get anywhere with CMP, and the red dot already has me spoiled.  Also, I'm not in the market for 2 .45s.  

Thank you for your help,

Gary

This is a very interesting proposition.

I have a Springfield Armory Range Officer that has been mildly upgraded by a very skilled Bullseye gunsmith (Roddy Toyota), which has the standard RO barrel, tightened up properly, excellent trigger job using the original components (new springs), stippled front strap and an added scope rail. I have had a 1" Ultradot with horizontal split rings on it since the start. My total cost less than $1,300. MSRP of the base gun has increased significantly recently, so let us say $1,500 currently.

If you had a gunsmith upgrade to a match barrel add another, say, $500. So let's say $2,000 for a spec comparable to the custom shop version you are considering.

My SARO shoots extremely well, certainly good enough to get to Master level, and is much more tolerant of different ammunition and being dirty than another extremely high end 1911 I own.

At your age and skill level either the SA Custom shop or a mildly accurised standard  SARO will be more than satisfactory.

A more pressing and important issue is time. By that I mean getting a serviceable gun and ammo into your hands as soon as possible so that you can do your best NOW!

If the Custom Shop gun is truly available immediately and you are comfortable re' funds, buy it now! Get horizontal split rings for the 1" UD (PM me and I can link you to a source, they are inexpensive).

If you want to save some money, contact Dave Salyer, he does very good work and turns things around very fast. Accurizing SARO's is bread and butter for him. No real need for a match barrel IMHO, but he can get/fit one if you insist. 

It happens that I have a brand new SARO sitting in Roddy's safe which I can sell to you for current market discount price (I'm not suggesting that you have Roddy do the work cause he is over-loaded, but you are free to discuss with him if you wish). PM me for contact details, etc. The reason that I have that gun still unused is that we bought two; Roddy accurised one, the other was intended to become an EIC Service spec gun, but we never got around to it. And I am impatient and bought numerous other Service pistols in the meantime

I am not pushing to sell you my gun, just intending to give give you some "real world" advice.

Regards CMP, they now promote 3 gun precision pistol called “Match Pistol”, basically a NRA clone, allowing optics, imho much better administered.

Being in your age group, I find that one of the drawbacks to bullseye pistol shooting is lack of endurance. A 2700 takes a lot of it and unless you are very fit, it might be an insurmountable hurdle. If you want the pistol badly and can afford it, I have heard very good things about SA Custom Shop over the years, but my info is dated. Rock River also produces a very good wad gun in that price range. Of course another good option would be to buy a good used wad gun. They come up for sale here now and again for 40% or less than what you'll pay for the SA. Good luck in your quest.

Quite a few people have found that an out-of-the box Range Officer will hold roughly 3" or so at 50 yds.  That's a 10-ring group.  Adding a new fitted bushing and perhaps on oversize slide stop can bring it down into the 2-21/2" range.  You would still need a rail on the slide and a trigger job, but that gives you a more than adequate gun to get started with for much less than what you are considering.  Of course, it doesn't get you checkering and some of the other polished features of a custom gun.  Those can be added later, but they may be worth it to you now.

I have not had a Bullseye gun done by the custom shop but they did some work on another 1911 of mine and the work was superb.

Question for the OP, have you shot any wad guns recently? I highly suggest trying some options before purchasing if you can. Some of the options on the custom shop gun may not fit your needs (e.g trigger length, front strap checkering preference, trigger feel ect.). If the options tick all the boxes of what you want in a wad gun, it likely would serve you just fine. 

I have two range officers that are both excellent guns (both 3" or less at 50 with appropriate ammo), for starters you could easily add a rail and get some trigger work done, then you would have a good competitive gun that you could easily make adjustments to suit your needs as you determine them.

Hello GME,

I have a good friend that has an "older" Springfield Armory Custom Shop bullseye pistol.  He has thousands of round through it and he loves it.  I have shot it and it shoots on call; nice pistol.

It's all about time and money....
  If I had the time and money, I would get a pistol by Jon Eulette
  If I had a little less of both, I would get a pistol from the Springfield Armory Custom Shop
  If I didn't have much of either, I would get a Springfield Armory Range Officer and a trigger job.

Let us know what you choose.

Jim

A custom shop bullseye gun will be in the same class as a gun done by a bullseye gunsmith. They know what they are doing. A few of the bullseye smiths know a few more tricks or spend a little time on a gun, but the extra 1/4 or 1/2" accuracy will probably not be significant for most shooters.

The total cost will probably be in the same ballpark regardless of which way you go. A bullseye smith may cost a little more or less, depending on who you go with, but may have more al-a-carte options to push the price up.

What she said...

radjag wrote:This is a very interesting proposition.

I have a Springfield Armory Range Officer that has been mildly upgraded by a very skilled Bullseye gunsmith (Roddy Toyota), which has the standard RO barrel, tightened up properly, excellent trigger job using the original components (new springs), stippled front strap and an added scope rail. I have had a 1" Ultradot with horizontal split rings on it since the start. My total cost less than $1,300. MSRP of the base gun has increased significantly recently, so let us say $1,500 currently.

If you had a gunsmith upgrade to a match barrel add another, say, $500. So let's say $2,000 for a spec comparable to the custom shop version you are considering.

My SARO shoots extremely well, certainly good enough to get to Master level, and is much more tolerant of different ammunition and being dirty than another extremely high end 1911 I own.

At your age and skill level either the SA Custom shop or a mildly accurised standard  SARO will be more than satisfactory.

A more pressing and important issue is time. By that I mean getting a serviceable gun and ammo into your hands as soon as possible so that you can do your best NOW!

If the Custom Shop gun is truly available immediately and you are comfortable re' funds, buy it now! Get horizontal split rings for the 1" UD (PM me and I can link you to a source, they are inexpensive).

If you want to save some money, contact Dave Salyer, he does very good work and turns things around very fast. Accurizing SARO's is bread and butter for him. No real need for a match barrel IMHO, but he can get/fit one if you insist. 

It happens that I have a brand new SARO sitting in Roddy's safe which I can sell to you for current market discount price (I'm not suggesting that you have Roddy do the work cause he is over-loaded, but you are free to discuss with him if you wish). PM me for contact details, etc. The reason that I have that gun still unused is that we bought two; Roddy accurised one, the other was intended to become an EIC Service spec gun, but we never got around to it. And I am impatient and bought numerous other Service pistols in the meantime

I am not pushing to sell you my gun, just intending to give give you some "real world" advice.

Thank your for all the information.  PM sent ref horizontal rings.

james r chapman wrote:Regards CMP, they now promote 3 gun precision pistol called “Match Pistol”, basically a NRA clone, allowing optics, imho much better administered.

Thanks, Jim.  I looked up the 2020 rules and found the new Match Pistol rules and all the red markup reflecting the new rule changes.  Yes, it looks like the NRA, complete with the usual classifications.  So, I stand corrected.  I am interested in CMP Match Pistol.  

I appreciate your call my attention to this new avenue for competition.  Now, if I can just learn to shoot again . . . . 

Gary

Isn't the SA custom shop always like a 2yr lead time.

BE Mike wrote:Being in your age group, I find that one of the drawbacks to bullseye pistol shooting is lack of endurance. 

Thank you, Mike, 

You're right, of course.   Endurance can certainly be an issue for we youngsters.  I hadn't given it much thought before you mentioned it, but a 2700 match can be tough for most anyone.

Before January, I was in excellent health.  In January, I sustained a particularly nasty total herniation of my left patellar tendon, which will probably mean that I will never return to my former activity level, e.g., being able to do manual labor for 4-6 hours/day, day after day.  

Right now, I can go to the range and shoot about 200 rounds at a time without it wearing me out and affecting my shooting.  I'm pretty sucky, so I suppose that isn't saying much.  Anyway, not too far off shooting 270 rounds at a stretch, so I'm getting there.  

I appreciate the reality check.  Thank you,

Gary

Dr.Don wrote:Quite a few people have found that an out-of-the box Range Officer will hold roughly 3" or so at 50 yds.  That's a 10-ring group.  Adding a new fitted bushing and perhaps on oversize slide stop can bring it down into the 2-21/2" range.  You would still need a rail on the slide and a trigger job, but that gives you a more than adequate gun to get started with for much less than what you are considering.  Of course, it doesn't get you checkering and some of the other polished features of a custom gun.  Those can be added later, but they may be worth it to you now.

Good point, Dr, Don.  Any off the shelf RO with outshoot me at this point, and any work is pure gravy.  I'm looking downstream, though.  If I can pull it off, I would rather buy once and done.  Of course, I'm assuming I have a shot of achieving at least an Expert classification in the shooting years I have left.  Maybe a stretch goal, but I owe it to myself to go as far as I can.

Thank you for your valuable input.

Gary

zanemoseley wrote:Isn't the SA custom shop always like a 2yr lead time.

Thanks, Zane,

Not long ago, I heard that they had wad guns available in stock.  I didn't check to see if it was true, or whether things had changed.  I need to do that.  I wouldn't be thrilled by a 2 year wait.  But then, I understand that good gunsmiths can have a several months long waitlist.  

Gary

weber1b wrote:I have not had a Bullseye gun done by the custom shop but they did some work on another 1911 of mine and the work was superb.

Great to know.  Thanks.

Gary

A 2700 isn’t a grind unless it is shot in one day.  Local matches would be better served, imo  by firing an 1800.  For state champs and regionals, a 2700 fired Saturday and Sunday (45) wupith leg matches after.

spursnguns wrote:Hello GME,

I have a good friend that has an "older" Springfield Armory Custom Shop bullseye pistol.  He has thousands of round through it and he loves it.  I have shot it and it shoots on call; nice pistol.

It's all about time and money....
  If I had the time and money, I would get a pistol by Jon Eulette
  If I had a little less of both, I would get a pistol from the Springfield Armory Custom Shop
  If I didn't have much of either, I would get a Springfield Armory Range Officer and a trigger job.

Let us know what you choose.

Jim

Thank your for your input, Jim.  Very helpful.  If I decide to have a pistol built, I'll be thinking about Jon Eulette.

Gary

On the subject of endurance for us oldies. This past Sunday was the last 2700 of the Oregon Outdoor 2700 season. It was very cold (for Oregon) on Sunday morning and I could feel the freeze from the concrete firing line floor immediately creeping up through my shoes. I noticed some pieces of thick black rubbery material (probably offcuts of horse barn mat) at the back of the range. Perfect size for my stance. Worked great and - a real bonus - I noticed that my lower legs/feet were much les weary than usual at the end of a 2700 + Reeves match. I will be carrying a piece of that mat around with me in future!

SteveT wrote:A custom shop bullseye gun will be in the same class as a gun done by a bullseye gunsmith. They know what they are doing. A few of the bullseye smiths know a few more tricks or spend a little time on a gun, but the extra 1/4 or 1/2" accuracy will probably not be significant for most shooters.

The total cost will probably be in the same ballpark regardless of which way you go. A bullseye smith may cost a little more or less, depending on who you go with, but may have more al-a-carte options to push the price up.

Thanks, Steve.  I suspected what you said might be the case, but had no basis for my suspicions.  

I believe more accuracy is generally better, assuming one can progress to the point of being able to use it.  I don't expect a custom gun turn me into an expert overnight, but I hope that downstream it will make a difference in my getting there

Gary.

LenV wrote:What she said...

Looks familiar. 

Wobbley wrote:A 2700 isn’t a grind unless it is shot in one day.  Local matches would be better served, imo  by firing an 1800.  For state champs and regionals, a 2700 fired Saturday and Sunday (45) wupith leg matches after.

I agree, but I'm not holding my breath.

Gary

radjag: Per rule 3.18, mat could be questioned/disallowed by officials as being beyond spirit of the rules as all competitors would not enjoy the same "advantage." Probably want to get OK before match start.