Disappointed with Nighthawk Custom

The reason I am posting this experience because it seems so many here have Springfields and seems to be the most recommended starter pistol in our game.  That's why I bought mine.  And I think everyone who has a Springfield should be aware of this because it states nowhere on Nighthawk Custom's website, my particular issue.  I did find this issue on another forum, that's all.  

My father bought me a Nighthawk Custom DTs (Drop-in Trigger System) for Christmas for my Springfield Range Officer.
We watch all the installing videos, read everything on their website, all that was noted is sometimes having to lightly refit the thumb safety.  Everything looked easy enough and watched enough installation videos to feel very confident.

It went into the frame, pins all lined up great.  The leaf spring they include had to be slightly bent at the bottom to stay in the notch of the frame.  Annoying, especially for the price, but not a big deal.
Now installing the grip safety.....  the stock grip safety on the Springfield Range Officer has ribs on the underside that push up against the unit housing, preventing any function.  We were sad and contacted Nighthawk Custom about it.... their first reply turned me from bummed, but maybe it can be made right to pissed off...  Maybe I am jaded from other companies going the extra mile in customer service, but I feel they barely went an inch in my book.  The manager did e-mail me back telling me that I should relieve enough material of the ribs for it to fit.  Seems like an awful amount of material to me.



Email Chain bodies copied and pasted below....  

Web-form "Contact Us"
Store group: Nighthawk Custom
Store name: Default Store View
Customer: Guest
Date: Dec 28, 2020 12:04:51 AM

Name
Dennis S

E-mail address
nightshift_1982@hotmail.com

Telephone
xxx-xxx-xxxx

Message
Hello,
I just received a DTS for Christmas from my father. Upon installation, my grip safety seems to squeeze against the DTS housing causing it not to function at all. 

I have a Springfield Range Officer that I bought new in August.

---------------------------------------------------------

From: Chase Gott
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 1:50 PM
To: nightshift_1982@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Web-form 'Contact Us' submitted 
 
Have you wanted the installation videos on the DTS page? 
https://www.nighthawkcustom.com/drop-in/drop-in-trigger-system
 
Chase Gott
Nighthawk Custom
1306 W. Trimble
Berryville, AR 72616
870-929-6278
870-423-4230 fax
www.nighthawkcustom.com 
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dennis S > 
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 1:17 PM
To: Chase Gott
Subject: Re: Web-form 'Contact Us' submitted
 
Yes.  It seems that the grip safety on my Springfield Range Officer has "ribs" on the inside with a channel running through just wide enough to comfortably accommodate the hammer strut.  The "ribs" are pushing against the housing of the DTS unit, blocking the safety engagement.  
 
Also, I am not sure of the leaf spring design, but my original hooks into my frame, where the Nighthawk is way flatter, where I had to be vigilant in holding it in place while reinstalling my mainspring housing .  Something I would be concerned about sliding out under recoil if the mainspring housing doesn't have a death grip against the frame.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good afternoon Dennis,

It sounds like you'll need to widen the channel on the back side of your grip safety to accommodate the DTS housing. Simply remove enough material so it clears the housing and moves in and out like it should. You may need to slightly bend the sear spring a little to adjust how much tension it puts on the grip safety. There should be a small bend at the bottom that will insert into the small cut in your frame. This will keep the sear spring from moving up and down in your frame. 

Please do not hesitate to reach out if you have any other questions.

Thanks! 

Bob Reeves
Customer Service/Custom Shop Manager
Direct Line: 870-929-6298 | Fax:  870-423-4230
Address: 1306 W Trimble Ave. Berryville, AR 72616

Photo with Labels added for clarity

Wow!
99% of grip safeties whether beavertail or GI have a narrow groove for the hammer strut. Their trigger housing looks pretty wide. They really should have known that most grip safeties would probably interfere with its function. Design flaw in my opinion. 
Yeah for your dad buying it for you. Sorry you’ve had a large problem with a drop in part. 
Jon

If you need to modify anything, especially taking off material from safet underside, then DTS ids not truly a drop in part. "Simply" relieve is not that simple when we talk about underside of grip safety. It would be much simpler and cheaper to just get a regular ignition package.  Springfield is probably the most popular widely distributed 1911 where Nighthawk should have checked against its specs. So yes, I am totally with you in your frustration. I would send their unit back tk them for full refund and get regular ignition package from someone else. For example Infinity ignition kit - cheaper and cooler looking...just for example, first link I came across. I am sure it will also function better.

https://infinity.americommerce.com/infinity-ignition-kit.aspx

A friend lent me one of their drop-in triggers to try. I had the same problem with my Series 70 Colt/Clark Heavy slide. Took it out and gave it back.  Not really a drop-in part.

The first rule of 1911s is there’s no such thing as a drop-in part.

If your dad paid for it by credit card, have him call his bank.  They will dispute the charge - but it is not what you ordered, a "drop-in" part.  The bank will win, and your dad will eventually get the funds restored.  In the meantime send it back, with a letter, and send a copy of the letter to the bank.

Then order something similar from a more reputable dealer.

ya drop in parts ! we all have been there. EGW parts have worked in the
pass for me with little or no fitting. they have a trigger kit 3.5lb that I
used 4+ years ago and still has a real nice brake.

bob

Installed 2 EGW ignition kits in Springfields without any major issues other than a few file strokes for the safety to work.  The same can be said for KC roll trigger kits, both are high quality but the KC kits had a long roll as drop-ins so that will have to be tuned to your liking.

If you send it back and want to get something that worked in my Springfield Trophy Match, you might want to consider Cylinder & Slide. I have been very well pleased with their kit.

Sc0 wrote:Installed 2 EGW ignition kits in Springfields without any major issues other than a few file strokes for the safety to work.  The same can be said for KC roll trigger kits, both are high quality but the KC kits had a long roll as drop-ins so that will have to be tuned to your liking.

I have also installed both EGW and KC ignition kits with no problems at all.

However, I don't really see the OP's problem as a big deal.  If he wants to use the Nighthawk kit, making some modifications to the grip safety are no big deal and if he wants to keep his Springfield original, just substitute another grip safety.  When I'm going to modify a part on a gun I usually substitute a new part with the modifications, so I can return the gun to original later. Leaf spring? I have dozens of leaf springs in my parts box, so I'd substitute an EGW for that Nighthawk. Those just aren't big enough issues to worry about.

Once you get things sorted out with Nighthawk take a look at this tutorial. You will use all your existing parts and no extraordinary fitting!

Google: "Weigand 2.5# trigger pull"

You might find it at the Brownell's site in their videos. The tutorial list tools used by part number found in Brownell's catalogue!

Smiles,

BE MikeIf you send it back and want to get something that worked in my Springfield Trophy Match, you might want to consider Cylinder & Slide. I have been very well pleased with their kit.

I can attest to cylinder and slide top quality work and parts - bear in mind that they have a nice line in solving the problem if you have too much money - but you get what you pay for.

They turned a bog standard Browning Hi Power into a fabulous competition pistol

It has seemed that the insides of a Range Officer are not 100% standard 1911.  Ruger is very close (except one needs to have an overtravel adjustment trigger).  Several others from major firms are very close.  
C & S parts almost always fit and work well in standard 1911.  MGW makes great parts too.  Factory 1911 can almost all use internal improvements and it sure helps if the insides are standard.
Ironically, one 1911 that appeared not to need improvement was made in Philippines - however its fore to aft mag-well distance was a bit too small for many magazines!   Mac

Hi guys,

Full disclosure: I hold the patent on the DTS system, and license it to Nighthawk for production and sale.

The interference issue with Springfield Armory beavertail grip safeties and the DTS is well known, and was known very early in the design process. The DTS works with the vast majority of pistols and grip safeties. It would be impossible to design parts that work with 100% of the myriad of 1911 variations. Occasionally a Kimber grip safety will present an issue as well, though design changes were made early on to accommodate most of the Kimber ones. The cast-in ribs in the Springfield Armory grip safety are just way too big to allow a change to accommodate. There are two fixes: a Smith and Alexander grip safety for Springfield will work with DTS, or removal of material from the rib from inside the grip safety. This can be done in a number of ways from a file to a dremel to a milling machine. If you would like, PM me, and I will alter your grip safety for you free of charge. I do get that a drop in part that requires alteration of parts is no longer a drop in part, this is generally only an issue for this particular brand and style of grip safety. 

I do have a bit of a beef with people suggesting that disputing the charges on the credit card should be the first line of defense. I don't work at Nighthawk, but have found them to be very easy people to work with. I expect that they would be happy to refund your money if you wanted to return the part without going straight to the credit card company. Nighthawk is generally about as reputable as they come. 

Nightshift82's experience notwithstanding, the DTS is a good option for someone who can handle assembly/disassembly but may not have the ability or tooling to stone sear and hammer angles. There are a lot of other advantages, but I am not trying to make a commercial, I just wanted to respond to the customer's issue.

mic drop