AW93 Trigger.....HELP!!!

I've read the posts on this subject on this forum, targettalk & Pilkguns. Brenzovich has not been helpful.

Does anyone know how to adjust this trigger? My goal is a short first stage with a drips to short roll break.

In my experience you will not be able to get a short first stage without modifying the pistol. That’s one of the reasons I will not shoot one.
Jon

Jon, I knew you'd comment!

It's possible to to get the trigger to work as requested with out modification. I did it to my AW. I thought I posted photos here a loooong time ago but I can't find it. I'm using another computer now but it's possible the photo is in my old computer.
 I found the problem, it's a stupid mistake or means of making the pistol cheaper.
 One day I watched closely as I pulled the trigger with the grips off. I could see the transfer bar engage the 2nd sear and the second sear moving as the trigger was pulled. There is a pivot pin that part of the 2nd sear so that the 2nd sear pivots around it. However I could not see the lower 1/2 of the 2nd sear move. Knowing it had to move if the top half moved so I check out why! What I found was the 2nd sear was not pivoting being held on the bottom by the 2nd sear spring so that it took considerable movement to release the 1st sear holding the hammer. The dummies did not provide any support for the top half of the 2nd sear pivot pin!
 My cure though not easy to do was to make an Aluminum Bronze plate with a hole just large enough to fit the pivot pin and used the tapped hole in the frame that is there for the screw on the opposite side for the grips. Therefore I didn't have to alter the frame. If tight with some loctite I'm sure it will not move but for me I made the plate long enough to extend up to the pin holding the hammer (think that was the pin) which required me to install a slightly longer pin. Now I can adjust my trigger to anything I want!!! Frame and all parts 100% original, gun can be returned to original by replacing the longer pin with the original. I did have to remove a small amout of wood in the grips but later made adapter plate so that I have 1911 grips on the AM93

Too much work for Harry homeowner. I hated the long roll trigger. Talked to a lot of people but couldn't reduce the roll. Sold the pistol. Even if I could reduce the roll IMHO the pistol was too light for me.

Bill

Frank, that was the modification I was talking about lol.
Mike, Frank can hook ya up lol.
Jon

When I first found the problem I though my gun had a missing part. Checked the drawing and other guns and they are the same! If I get a chance I'll look, maybe a simple thin metal strip will work! Simply drop it and put a screw in the unused side of the right hand grip screw hole. Now I'm busy with my .22 conversion. actually it's not a conversion but a complete gun. I have the .22 barrel lower lug fitted snug, it will not fall out of a new Caspian frame if the slide stop pin is out. Barrel is complete, working on the slide. Well barrel is actually almost complete, hole for slide stop pin is not done yet.

The person to help you is Todd.  I can help also, but will require a trip to Philly...on your part.

A trip to Philly is not out of the question. Less than 2 hours.

Who's Todd?

I would be very interested to fix my long roll trigger problem as well. I made the move to AW93 from IZH-35M which had a beautiful trigger release and I'm not sure if I can ever get used to the AW trigger. I have the sear engagement adjusted to minimum but the break in slow fire is as long as week before paycheck! I also had to remove some wood from my left side of left hand grip in milling machine do to sear spring hook dragging against the side. Trigger feel was different with and without grip installed and that's how I found the problem. Hooking the spring the other way (turning it 180 degrees around) did little improvement and move it little deeper into the frame. Many people I know in our bullseye league and international competitions do great with the AW pistols. I will appreciate any pictures you guys could provide for this fix.
Bernard

I posted a photo some time ago of the fix. Maybe someone can help find it, I can't but I'm sure it's in my old computer. If it can't be found I'll fire-up the old computer and post it.

Todd Utter is the Feinwerkbau smith. PM me for info

Frank sent me this picture a year ago. As stated, it supports the pin for one sear but, if he were to remake it, he would support the other one as well.

Thanks for posting the photo mspingeld That little hole is the sear pivot pin, the screw is in the threaded hole for the grip screw on the other side. I would think that if a thin piece of steel were used it could extend down to the other screw hole and use the same screw as the grips. With the 2 screws and some inlettting of the grips it would not be necessary to extend the plate up to the hammer pin to prevent the plate from moving. The radius in the Aluminum Bronze was done to see the transfer bar engagement, I soon realized I cut to quickly because if I left more material I could have supported the Hammer sear pivot pin also, it can clearly be seen in the photo. I might make another some day but for now its working!

Thank you as well.
I see you have the spring installed the other way like I did to make it not to protrude out of the frame as far. It does make a difference, at least for OEM left hand grip.
Bernard

Here's what my AW looks like now, Though there have been some slight changes. I sprayed the Aluminum with Aluma Black from Brownells, The top of the pistol was changed to Titanium and I mounted a scope with Doctor mount, didn't like the scope so I got another but had to make a Weaver to Doctor adapter. Didn't like that scope or the height so I got a Nikon red dot, remover the adapter and cut the Titanium  to Weaver. Putting 1911 grips on the AW lowered the barrel height so that center bore is at the Index finger and Thumb web. Did get anodizing equipment to anodize the painted Aluminum but didn't get to it yet!
 As per me changing spring to opposite I don't remember doing that, what spring are you talking about?
 I'll get another camera to make current photos since my Casio EX-Z57 does not want to work on Win 10

Hook style extension spring for trigger slack weight adjustment. All pictures and manuals I have seen shows it hooked from outside onto sear. Yours (and mine) is hooked from inside out which moves the spring about 2mm deeper into the frame cavity.

I'm hearing some good things from several people on the back channel about adjusting the AW93 trigger. I'm glad to hear it. Looking forward to learning something I missed.
Jon

I have zero I repeat zero movement of my sear pins since they are both pressed through both sides of the frame (two places). The only play you may have on the sear is clearance between pin diameter & hole drilled through sear to be able to rotate around the pin. From engineering point the plate Froneck made would be zero improvement to my pistol.
Jon,, I assure you that you didn't miss anything. There are no "stupid mistakes" in the design but if someone can redesign it to make it better,, more power to him. Just my honest opinion, Bernard

You can set the trigger any way you wish...all it takes is know how, skill, and patience. Patience is the key factor.

You must have a different Model AW than I have talka686. Mine as seen in the photos does not have both sides of either sear supported as your does. The AL bronze plate is holding the first seat as seen by the black dot. Looking up toward the hammer the Hammer sear pivot pin is clearly seen as no supported by the frame on one end. Looking at a few owners manuals online I don't see any that support the pivot pin on bot sides. Now that I made the plate the trigger is easily adjustable to any style desired.

No, I have the same model & design as you. The pin is solidly supported in two plases and about as hare as a drill stock. If your's was bending, it would have snapped/broked off already. If the hole for the sear pin was oversized (to let the pin move slightly) and somehow missed the quality control at the factory, they would have replaced your pistol under warranty but I doubt any of these situations is truth. I would like to know how you have determined that the pin has a play in it?  By your eyes, optical comparator, dial indicator? Doesn't make any sence at all to me, sorry. But, we are only mechanical engineers here, the guys dozing it were both geniuses! Bernard

Two updates:

I've learned that the trigger CAN be adjusted to just about any characteristics desired but I couldn't figure it out on my own. On my Pardini, I could see what effect each screw had but not on this pistol. There are parts behind the frame that aren't visible. With help from someone more knowledgeable than I, the trigger now has a short, light 1st stage and a short roll break with just a touch of over-travel. A great improvement!

Regarding the pivot point support, this picture shows that the two sears do have two points of support on the frame but one side of the frame is indented and the parts sit over the indentation. The upper sear, not shown, is supported in the same way. I cannot feel any play (a little unscientific, I admit). Regardless, I am now happy as I loved the balance of this gun, which is why I sold the Pardini and bought the AW93, and now I love the trigger. Time to re-focus on fundamentals.

mspingeld wrote: With help from someone more knowledgeable than I, the trigger now has a short, light 1st stage and a short roll break with just a touch of over-travel. A great improvement!

Sooo, when do we hear the details!?

Again I'm not sure if the photo of your AW is the same as mine. First the 1st sear pin looks large in diameter. Second my sear pin and sear were one piece yours looks as if the sear has a hole and pivots on the silver colored pin that may have been pressed into the frame. My pin is totally black same as the sear and pin rotates in the frame! Might have been an up-grade. Somewhere back when I first described the problem I mentioned I pushed the sear down and it worked as intended but nothing held it down and the problem returned after a few dry fires. I made a simple plate with a hole .0005 larger than pivot pin diameter and placed it on the pivot pin held in place with small C clamp, the movement described in previous post disappeared, Knowing my fix worked I the proceeded to find a permanent way to attach the plate! I'm thinking that if a change was made and now the sear and pin are separate then buying and installing the newer sear will fix the problem. I check my triggers with 1 ounce weights, no not all the weights are 1 oz. They are 1, 2, 3oz, 1/4 pound. 1/2 pound, 1 pound and so on. I get a chance I'll open my AW and do some checking since when I did the change it was at least 3 or more years ago, I then went off on a MatchGun2 and now working on a .22 conversion for the 1911. I ordered another Camera because mine will not work with Win 10, when it comes I'll make a few photos.