Is Match 22lr worth the price?

Is match 22lr worth the price?  In my opinion, in a match rifle, yes. But I am not shooting to the capability of cheap ammunition in a handgun.   These targets are at 50 yards, with CCI SV 22lr, the cheapest SV I could buy in 2019, at $200 a case. God knows what the Biden panic has driven prices to now, but I timed the market and purchased two cases.

I do see many Bullseye shooters with Red Box Tennex, sometimes Center-X, and with various SK match ammunition. Match ammunition in a rifle is needed for best accuracy.  But for a handgun?  I wanted to see how my Anschutz M54 would do with CCI Standard Velocity, and so, I shot these groups at 50 yards, using a bench, a rest, and a scope on top of the rifle.






I am certain the 20 shot group got larger with that hole, because I lost something to aim at.  I was surprised that CCI SV would hold the ten ring at 50 yards of the A23 Smallbore target. I was also lucky the winds had died down, until you shoot a 22 lr in competition, you really don't know how these bullets float like a spit wad in the slightest wind.



I am not going to shoot CCI SV in any smallbore match, my experience with these cheaper grades of 22 lr is that the QC is not there. Shoot enough of the cheaper stuff and you will get a 6 OC drop out that cannot be explained except for ammunition.  Such as this








or this








The F Class shooter who experienced the 22 inch drop out at 100 yards with TAC 22 never used that ammunition again. Instead he went to Eley Black box and is doing much better. This is one of his 100 yard cleans with Eley Black Box



The ten ring on a 50 yard rifle target is either dime sized, or quarter, and if CCI SV will hold that, than I am not to worried about the sub four inch Bullseye ten ring at 50 yards, especially as I am lucky if I can keep all my shots on the repair center!  Therefore, I am very skeptical that pistol match really does much more, unless it provides function consistency. And it may.

I can say, my CCI SV gives me issues in my pistols. Out of 150 rounds fired in the rifle, nary a misfire, but in pistols, got problems.







Pistols do not have the robust ignition systems of rifles and, what I was told, rifle ammunition is coated with a beeswax based lube. Pistol match ammunition is coated with some vegetable based ammunition that provides less chambering resistance. That lube may leave less fouling, but that is my guess. If the rim of the cartridge is not held firmly against the breech face, for whatever reason, misfires will happen. That rim must be firmly seated, and the priming compound must be hit hard and fast, for reliable ignition. If there is "give", or a short firing pin, or dented breech face, than that primer mix not is not going to go fully bang.

This happened to me. My Ruger SS MKII firing pin was made of soft material and the end peened.



MKII bolt showing that the firing pin had been pounded flat at the back.







This gave shallow firing pin indentations on the ammunition, and that caused squibs, poor cycling, and misfires. However, a nice new Volquartsen alloy firing pin, and that pistol is back on the firing line.




At one 22lr rifle match, a shooter near me kept on having misfires. He had dry fired his rifle and had not disassembled the bolt to learn that the front of the firing pin had broken. The rifle would still shoot, and he continued dry firing the thing, with a broken firing pin. What then occurred is the forward firing pin section was free floating, and upon dry firing, rebounded off the breech of the barrel. That created a dent just above the chamber.  And that caused misfires in the match I was at, and finally lead to an investigation of the firing pin. I have not up loaded my pics of his fired rounds, but you could clearly see the rim swelling into the breech dent, if they went off, and few did. The rim impact was cushioned by the hole on the breech and most rounds were not igniting, even with multiple tries.

I did ask an ammunition representative if match pistol ammunition had a more sensitive priming compound and a different, "peaky" powder, and was told, nope. The only major difference was lube to make the round easier to chamber and extract in a pistol. If you review pistol match ammunition ads, you will see the bullet/case lube emphasized, so I believe the lube is different.

Anyway, based on my results, I am more concerned about function, than the theoretical accuracy capability of match ammunition in a pistol, given the much larger aiming error of the shooter!


I still would not shoot the stuff in a rifle match.

For the long line out of a a gun with a real good barrel Center X added about eight to ten x's to my scores. It closes up the groups about 3/8 an inch but each gun is different. 

I built a Volquartsen 22/45 with some spares I had accumulated over the years and so far the best ammo out of that gun is CMP Eley which is cheap relative to Midas. 

I have also had real good results sizing and sorting 22lr which can shrink groups but takes about an hour to make 500 match rounds and you have to test your gun to understand which is the best rim thickness for your gun.

In closing I do not think the match ammo adds points but it can add x's. It will not take an 8 and make it a 10 but if you are good enough to clean long line targets then you get more x's. However, if you are good enough to clean the long line you probably know all this already. 

For us mortals we are probably better off buying $1500 more on acceptable SV ammo and practicing more than spending $1500 on a case of Eley or Lapua. The best value on target ammo without getting into the real pricey stuff is either SK in the Green Box, Eley Target in the Yellow Box, or Norma Tac. Most guns seem to shoot one of those well.

Slamfire wrote:Is match 22lr worth the price?

In most cases no. Most standard velocity 22 is plenty accurate in most target pistols, but it's worth testing in your gun to make sure. 

High end target ammo from Eley, Lapua or SK will shoot very well in almost all guns. Cheaper ammo may work very well in some guns and not as good in others. Find something decent that will shoot an inch or two at 50 yards, go buy a few cases (when they become available) and be happy.

If you get the ‘dropped shots” due to low velocity in cheap ammo in a rifle, you’ll get them in a pistol as well.  The use of high grade ammo is a personal choice.  Some say “ CCI SV (or some other SV ammo) shoots better than I can”.  I say “How do you know until you try”?  So for big matches like regionals or the Nationals, it might be better to shoot a higher grade ammo.  And certainly after every 1-2000 rounds of training ammo, shoot a brick of higher grade ammo in some practice 900s just to see if you are getting better.

Slamfire wrote:Is match 22lr worth the price?  In my opinion, in a match rifle, yes. But I am not shooting to the capability of cheap ammunition in a handgun.   These targets are at 50 yards, with CCI SV 22lr, the cheapest SV I could buy in 2019, at $200 a case. God knows what the Biden panic has driven prices to now, but I timed the market and purchased two cases.

I do see many Bullseye shooters with Red Box Tennex, sometimes Center-X, and with various SK match ammunition. Match ammunition in a rifle is needed for best accuracy.  But for a handgun?  I wanted to see how my Anschutz M54 would do with CCI Standard Velocity, and so, I shot these groups at 50 yards, using a bench, a rest, and a scope on top of the rifle.






I am certain the 20 shot group got larger with that hole, because I lost something to aim at.  I was surprised that CCI SV would hold the ten ring at 50 yards of the A23 Smallbore target. I was also lucky the winds had died down, until you shoot a 22 lr in competition, you really don't know how these bullets float like a spit wad in the slightest wind.



I am not going to shoot CCI SV in any smallbore match, my experience with these cheaper grades of 22 lr is that the QC is not there. Shoot enough of the cheaper stuff and you will get a 6 OC drop out that cannot be explained except for ammunition.  Such as this








or this








The F Class shooter who experienced the 22 inch drop out at 100 yards with TAC 22 never used that ammunition again. Instead he went to Eley Black box and is doing much better. This is one of his 100 yard cleans with Eley Black Box



The ten ring on a 50 yard rifle target is either dime sized, or quarter, and if CCI SV will hold that, than I am not to worried about the sub four inch Bullseye ten ring at 50 yards, especially as I am lucky if I can keep all my shots on the repair center!  Therefore, I am very skeptical that pistol match really does much more, unless it provides function consistency. And it may.

I can say, my CCI SV gives me issues in my pistols. Out of 150 rounds fired in the rifle, nary a misfire, but in pistols, got problems.







Pistols do not have the robust ignition systems of rifles and, what I was told, rifle ammunition is coated with a beeswax based lube. Pistol match ammunition is coated with some vegetable based ammunition that provides less chambering resistance. That lube may leave less fouling, but that is my guess. If the rim of the cartridge is not held firmly against the breech face, for whatever reason, misfires will happen. That rim must be firmly seated, and the priming compound must be hit hard and fast, for reliable ignition. If there is "give", or a short firing pin, or dented breech face, than that primer mix not is not going to go fully bang.

This happened to me. My Ruger SS MKII firing pin was made of soft material and the end peened.



MKII bolt showing that the firing pin had been pounded flat at the back.







This gave shallow firing pin indentations on the ammunition, and that caused squibs, poor cycling, and misfires. However, a nice new Volquartsen alloy firing pin, and that pistol is back on the firing line.




At one 22lr rifle match, a shooter near me kept on having misfires. He had dry fired his rifle and had not disassembled the bolt to learn that the front of the firing pin had broken. The rifle would still shoot, and he continued dry firing the thing, with a broken firing pin. What then occurred is the forward firing pin section was free floating, and upon dry firing, rebounded off the breech of the barrel. That created a dent just above the chamber.  And that caused misfires in the match I was at, and finally lead to an investigation of the firing pin. I have not up loaded my pics of his fired rounds, but you could clearly see the rim swelling into the breech dent, if they went off, and few did. The rim impact was cushioned by the hole on the breech and most rounds were not igniting, even with multiple tries.

I did ask an ammunition representative if match pistol ammunition had a more sensitive priming compound and a different, "peaky" powder, and was told, nope. The only major difference was lube to make the round easier to chamber and extract in a pistol. If you review pistol match ammunition ads, you will see the bullet/case lube emphasized, so I believe the lube is different.

Anyway, based on my results, I am more concerned about function, than the theoretical accuracy capability of match ammunition in a pistol, given the much larger aiming error of the shooter!


I still would not shoot the stuff in a rifle match.

Ruger firing pins tend to have a few know issues. Those strikes still look plenty good. I would check your chamber to make sure it is really clean and has no carbon build up. I also like to keep a an extra firing pin spring around and replace that tiny spring every 2500 rounds. That should save wear and tear on the pin. I also grind the top flat of the pin a little so it does not rub on the recoil spring , which on the MK IV that can make a big difference.

The risk/reward of cheap ammo diminishes dramatically the closer to 900 you shoot

Wobbley wrote:If you get the ‘dropped shots” due to low velocity in cheap ammo in a rifle, you’ll get them in a pistol as well.  The use of high grade ammo is a personal choice.  Some say “ CCI SV (or some other SV ammo) shoots better than I can”.  I say “How do you know until you try”?  So for big matches like regionals or the Nationals, it might be better to shoot a higher grade ammo.  And certainly after every 1-2000 rounds of training ammo, shoot a brick of higher grade ammo in some practice 900s just to see if you are getting better.

Back when I did a lot of testing I found that Eley Tenex and other expensive ammo shot pretty good (~1-1.5" @ 50yds) in all my guns. Every gun had some brand of cheaper stuff (CCI, Fed, low end SK) that shot as well or better, but none of the cheaper stuff shot good in all guns.

If shooting expensive stuff helps build confidence, that's great. Normally it's not a huge expense.

You aught to be shooting 890+ with your 22 to be investing $15/box for Tenex. I shoot in the 870-880 range on a decent day with my 208S and RWS Target Pistol and wouldn't really consider going higher than Eley Target, SK Std+ or RWS Target Pistol until I make a serious move to HM, shot a 2581 yesterday so I've got about 40 points left to go. I also shoot a ton of CCI SV especially when I was shooting my Marvel conversion, I prefer Euro ammo in Euro pistols. I've been shooting about 5 years and don't ever recall one dropped shot that was bad enough to notice.

At my range yesterday there was a guy crono-ing his loads. He shoots IDPA and was working on power factor and accuracy.  .45ACP we are talking.  He was talking about bullet depth and distance to the rifleing lands and carefully weighing each charge and how that affected accuracy and he wasn't happy with how some loads were shooting.  For IDPA?!  Me, I'm a case half full, seat bullet not quite to the shoulder and crimp her down kind of guy.  If I'm not holding the 10 ring at 25 yards, It's me, not the gun or the load.
kurt

It depends on how good you shoot.  I think for MK and SS find ammo that functions and goes bang every time in your pistol so you have one less thing to worry about.  At this stage your hold is not good enough to have ammo that can hold the xring at 50.  For EX and above I would move to something that still is reliable but you know stays inside the 10ring and maybe xring.  If you can shoot MA/HM I would recommend buying xring ammo and only use it at 50 and then shoot something that shoots good and functions at 25 if you need to save some funds.  Any 9's at 25 are not the ammo.  I might miss out on a few x's.

Toz35m wrote:It depends on how good you shoot.  I think for MK and SS find ammo that functions and goes bang every time in your pistol so you have one less thing to worry about.  At this stage your hold is not good enough to have ammo that can hold the xring at 50.  For EX and above I would move to something that still is reliable but you know stays inside the 10ring and maybe xring.  If you can shoot MA/HM I would recommend buying xring ammo and only use it at 50 and then shoot something that shoots good and functions at 25 if you need to save some funds.  Any 9's at 25 are not the ammo.  I might miss out on a few x's.

For smallbore prone, I shoot the cheaper match ammunition, such as SK Rifle Match, and I have a decent lot of SK STD Plus, in local, don't count for anything, matches. When I go to the Nationals, I shoot the good stuff.

In so far as sorting ammunition by rim thickness, Eley came to the Smallbore National Matches and gave a sales pitch for the indoor range. Really well heeled and serious rifle shooters send their rifle to them and have it lot tested. Eley sorts their match ammunition at the end of their production lines, by shooting the stuff. They claim the only way to differentiate ammunition is by firing it on a target. Eley showed a chart of the measurements they control at the factory, and I think it was 120 dimensions they measure and control on the cartridge case. Basically, anyone picking one of these, at random, sorting their ammunition by it, and then claiming improved accuracy, is seeing patterns that don't exist. All the time, for every shooting sport, someone has a magic tool for sale with will improve accuracy. Shooters buy them, and then tell stories of improvements, and but eventually, the tool goes to the back of the shelf, once the magic runs out.

It is my recollection that good rifle match ammunition will group 40 rounds within 12 mm at 50 yards. Older shooters, like Leons Wigger, claimed that the older ammunition was better than the new stuff. Leons claimed that back in the day, 152 X's was the standard in a 1600 match.  Leon said that today, a 152 is very rare indeed, and so it is. The only conclusion, with the improved rifles and optics, is that today's ammunition is not as good as it used to be. And Leons was big when Giants walked on the earth.

The drop in X count could also be due to the massive drop in numbers of smallbore prone shooters.

*Lones* Wigger.

I prefer to shoot stupid expensive ammo in my smallbore rifles. Mainly because I know from testing that it groups better. But also because if I'm going to cripple myself laying down for 8 strings of 20 rds, plus sighters, I'm going to feel more satisfied knowing my wallet has taken a good bruising as well ;-)

And for the occasional 200 yard match, it actually matters, even at my skill level.

Pistol? I just want the damn thing to go bang *EVERY * time I pull the trigger. And I've had a much better experience in that regard with SK, and Eley, than with CCI. My $3 a box RWS is still a work in progress ...

I remember a couple years back CC had RWS Target Pistol on sale for $400 a case I think it was. I only bought one, wish I had bought several more cause I doubt I'll ever see it that cheap again. That was when you could get CCI for $225 and they even had rebates occasionally. Hope to see those prices again.

I shoot a Feinwerkbau AW93 and simply use Topshot (same as CCC Standard Velocity) for everyday training and SK Pistol Special Match on Sundays and in competitions. Makes the better and more expensive SK last 10 times longer :-). Worth it? To me, yes. I'd rather spend my money that way than buying a new car every second year. THAT's where you can save money.

Back in my glory days when I was a hair from a high master average, I shot expensive ($250) a case RWS in
all matches.
I shot cheap ($90) per case ammo in practice. I noticed out of my Pardini SPE with my 30 something eyes
and body my practice scores were on par with my match scores. 
I was shooting enough to feel confident and match nerves were not an issue.
The cheap stuff would go bang at an acceptable rate and I stopped buying the RWS as I could not
justify the expense.
I still have a couple bricks of that 30+ year old RWS in my cabinet.

Comparing rifle and pistol results only confuses the issue. The ability to reliably function in a pistol is not only determined by the ammo choice, but also the gun used. Accuracy is also dependent upon the handgun, as well as, the ammo choice. 2/3 of the match is sustained fire. I didn't really start worrying about .22 accuracy at 50 yards until I was high into the expert class. Too many shooters don't test their pistols at 50 yards, but rely upon shorter distances. They also don't have a reliable means of testing. These are mistakes. When I started using a new Hammerli 208s, I was able to test it. I found that CCI Match Pistol .22 ammo shot the best groups. I also was pleased that the pistol functions 100% reliably with all the  different standard velocity ammos I have shot in it. My personal standard for .22 accuracy for matches, out of a pistol is 1". CCI Match Pistol shoots better than that at 50 yards out of my pistol. That gave me a lot of confidence when match shooting and confidence in one's equipment and ability is a big part of the game. Although it's been a long time ago, I still find pleasure in looking at a framed target on my desk. It is a clean target with low X count, but still clean! It was the first ten shots fired at a Frank J. Bickar Memorial Regional. IIRC, I followed it up with a 98. I never was a top shooter, but my good performances and friends I made along the way really made me happy and still provide great memories.

Just a short story,.

I bought a Hamdem Victor.  It was a jam o matik.   
I read stuff and adjusted the magazines.   

Finally I shot some European ammo.  (SK standard +) It shot fine and the jams were gone.   Only an occasional alibi.    I had 2 magazines that worked great.  The third one was an original High standard magazine that did not work.

Next thing, I bought an LSP barrel,  Made from a Douglas blank, guaranteed to shoot less than one inch at 50 yards with CCI SV.

Mount the barrel, and a 14X rifle scope and sure as can be it shoots about 3/4" for 10 shots at 50 yards using that scope and sand bag  under the butt with my Hyscore pistol rest.   
Now all 3 magazines work fine with the CCI SV or any other ammo.

SO, I shoot CCI SV.  Luckily, I  bought a case and a spare before the things went crazy.

David

Just a note about my 3  Anschutz rifles.   They will not shoot CCI sv into less than an inch at 50 yards and the bolt closed hard on them, so only European ammo in these 3 rifles.  With SK standard,  all 3 will shoot  just under 3/8" @ 50 yards.

When I started out I used, rather like many many others, a mk2 Ruger. It had a definite preference for the Wolf target ammo so I bought that for the long line. I occasionally bought Blazer for practice but that was like dry firing with a bang - it wouldn't hit the side of a barn.

When shooting at Canton one time I noticed the fellow sharpshooter beside me had an identical gun. Even down to the ultradot on it. We were joking that we'd have to take care we didn't get confused. He was using Blazer - and shooting mid 80s on the long line.

My conclusion was that 22 pistols are picky. My Nelson eats CCI SV all day and groups well inside the 10 ring so that's an easy one. If I ever get my MG2 running I suspect I'll have to start the 'buy a brick of everything' routine.

In the 70s shooting Outdoor Prone for about 6 years, we lot tested red box and black box and a few other ammo.  Eley almost always was the best.  There were lot differences. Sometimes significant differences.  If we were lucky we got good amounts of our preferred lots. 

Around 20 years ago I ransom rested several High Standard barrels.  Often swapping different barrels onto the same ransom mounted frame.  Without a doubt, Eley shot best in most of the HS barrels. 

Also back then, I found that Federal 900B was super in one of the S&W 41 pistols.  Well under 1" on the best groups. 

When doing serious ransom testing you should load 7 and record only the middle 5. 

With pistol, unless your hold is like iron and your fundamentals are complete, and your pistol reliable, trying to squeeze another half inch out the the ransom is a waste of time.

I find that the biggest difference between the SK and CCI that I alternate from in practice and matches is the muzzle velocity.  The CCI round is much hotter and I can tell a difference immediately.  I prefer a softer shooting round and that happens to be SK out of my Pardini.

"but I timed the market and purchased two cases."


-So Clairvoyant.......

BE Mike wrote:Comparing rifle and pistol results only confuses the issue. The ability to reliably function in a pistol is not only determined by the ammo choice, but also the gun used. Accuracy is also dependent upon the handgun, as well as, the ammo choice.

I don't disagree, but I don't shoot pistols off a rest, and I have never tried to group my pistols at 50 yards, as nothing definitive will be learned.

While ammunition that shot well in a rifle could shoot horribly in a pistol, if it shoots well in a rifle, that provides confidence in accuracy consistency.  And does anyone know how Eley, SK, and RWS test their pistol ammunition?  They might be using rifles for accuracy sorting lots.

I did ask Killough, who was at one of the Smallbore National Matches, how match ammunition shot in pistols, and the guy there, who ran those sort of tests, said that pistol ammunition groups were twice the diameter of rifle groups.

Given the ten ring diameter at 50 yards, whether the pistol cycles is more important than anything else. This weekend shot a 2700, the shooter I was scoring, lost all of his X's due to two alibis, in two matches. And he kept some eights, which may or may not have been in the alibi relay.  Alibis are not your friend, and you will loose more points in alibis, than you will gain with slight increases in accuracy, at the expense of reliability.